Comments on: Tricks are for Kids http://tleaves.com/2005/11/11/tricks-are-for-kids/ Creativity x Technology Sat, 17 Mar 2012 05:09:58 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: David http://tleaves.com/2005/11/11/tricks-are-for-kids/comment-page-1/#comment-2036 David Tue, 15 Nov 2005 01:47:33 +0000 http://tleaves.com/?p=505#comment-2036 I would bet (being too lazy to do the harder challenge of actual fact checking) that the percentage of movies outside of the 16-24 range being made and getting distribution is about the same as the number of less adolescent themed games being produced. Time and again developer are complaining that they are not being allowed to express creative ideas because they never make it past the "faceless men in black's" review. It seems everytime a large gaming conference crops up Game Developer magazine is filled with angst ridden commens from big names in development complaining that ingenuity is dead. In fact the Indie development scene has all the same feel as the Indie movie industry. Its not all the faceless corporate evils fault of course but they are definitely not helping at all. I would bet (being too lazy to do the harder challenge of actual fact checking) that the percentage of movies outside of the 16-24 range being made and getting distribution is about the same as the number of less adolescent themed games being produced.

Time and again developer are complaining that they are not being allowed to express creative ideas because they never make it past the “faceless men in black’s” review.

It seems everytime a large gaming conference crops up Game Developer magazine is filled with angst ridden commens from big names in development complaining that ingenuity is dead.

In fact the Indie development scene has all the same feel as the Indie movie industry.

Its not all the faceless corporate evils fault of course but they are definitely not helping at all.

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By: psu http://tleaves.com/2005/11/11/tricks-are-for-kids/comment-page-1/#comment-2035 psu Mon, 14 Nov 2005 16:03:26 +0000 http://tleaves.com/?p=505#comment-2035 I don't think you can lay this completely at the feet of the faceless men in black and their profit motive. After all, the film industry somehow manages to make movies that step beyond the 16-24 demographic. I think that at least part of the problem is that game designers have no interest in looking past the infantile and the adolescent. I also think that there are some hard questions around exactly what it means for a game to be "mature." I don’t think you can lay this completely at the feet of the faceless men in black and their profit motive.

After all, the film industry somehow manages to make movies that step beyond the 16-24 demographic.

I think that at least part of the problem is that game designers have no interest in looking past the infantile and the adolescent. I also think that there are some hard questions around exactly what it means for a game to be “mature.”

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By: David http://tleaves.com/2005/11/11/tricks-are-for-kids/comment-page-1/#comment-2034 David Mon, 14 Nov 2005 15:51:58 +0000 http://tleaves.com/?p=505#comment-2034 Isn't this just another symptom of the big business industry that gaming has become? Creativity is not reward by these corprations only the ever popular (amongst the «EOs at least) guaranteed sales. They are pandering to the broadest appeal base and once again the tastes of that group are anything but impressive. I don't see it getting much better either. Nintendo has always been safe zone. I know there is a large enough fan base to keep them in business and they really do crank out some phenominal games. As long as they are around I am pretty confident I will have something to play. Isn’t this just another symptom of the big business industry that gaming has become? Creativity is not reward by these corprations only the ever popular (amongst the «EOs at least) guaranteed sales.

They are pandering to the broadest appeal base and once again the tastes of that group are anything but impressive. I don’t see it getting much better either.

Nintendo has always been safe zone. I know there is a large enough fan base to keep them in business and they really do crank out some phenominal games. As long as they are around I am pretty confident I will have something to play.

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By: Zaphod http://tleaves.com/2005/11/11/tricks-are-for-kids/comment-page-1/#comment-2033 Zaphod Mon, 14 Nov 2005 13:28:53 +0000 http://tleaves.com/?p=505#comment-2033 Nice post. Echos a lot of my thoughts. Nice post. Echos a lot of my thoughts.

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By: psu http://tleaves.com/2005/11/11/tricks-are-for-kids/comment-page-1/#comment-2032 psu Sat, 12 Nov 2005 13:53:10 +0000 http://tleaves.com/?p=505#comment-2032 I have not tried Indigo yet. Might get to it after Half-Life 2 for the xbox (I have no PC) I have not tried Indigo yet. Might get to it after Half-Life 2 for the xbox (I have no PC)

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By: Adam Rixey http://tleaves.com/2005/11/11/tricks-are-for-kids/comment-page-1/#comment-2031 Adam Rixey Sat, 12 Nov 2005 13:41:29 +0000 http://tleaves.com/?p=505#comment-2031 Out of curiousity, have you tried Indigo Prophecy? It's been recommended to me as a game that actually deals with adult themes and relationships in an intelligent manner, with real characters. (Well, and also themes of death cults and stuff...it is still a video game). I thought the demo had a lot of potential, and Gamefly should have it in my hands in a few days... Out of curiousity, have you tried Indigo Prophecy? It’s been recommended to me as a game that actually deals with adult themes and relationships in an intelligent manner, with real characters. (Well, and also themes of death cults and stuff…it is still a video game).

I thought the demo had a lot of potential, and Gamefly should have it in my hands in a few days…

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By: Mike Collins http://tleaves.com/2005/11/11/tricks-are-for-kids/comment-page-1/#comment-2030 Mike Collins Sat, 12 Nov 2005 05:59:01 +0000 http://tleaves.com/?p=505#comment-2030 God of War really is the epitome of the "maturity == t3h b00bies" mindset that bothers me about a lot of the ostensibly mature games - kind of summarized when Penny Arcade did that American McGee's Strawberry Shortcake poster a few years ago. And really, given that God of War is child-ish, and Katamari is child-like, I'd rather play Katamari simply because the child-like aspects of it are charming, whereas (especially when you hit the the cage sacrifice part) GoW is just off-putting. Did you run through any of the Director's extra's in GoW? If you want a mind that never left puberty, there's a rather depressing example where you can hear commentary obsessing about a cyclops' penis. I'm not sure that "childish" is the right term so much as "painfully arrested adolescence". The question now is, what games aren't like that? Trinity tried something interesting there, we can always point to U4 (and I think it says something about the poverty of the genre that we're going to ALWAYS end up pointing to U4 at some point). Thomas Disch tried something with Amnesia, and there are a few more experimental games from the mid 80's like Portal. What really bothers me the more I think about this is how much of what's coming to mind kind of peaks around 1988 - then we're frozen into genres and downhill from there. "Interactive Fiction" as a concept more or less devolves into a hobbyist community and a lot of largely ignored research. O'course, to go back to a previous post - isn't this partly a function of the craptacular criticism for games? It's not exactly like folks are getting challenged that much on the intellectual grounds (I'm imagining a seperate "imbecility" score for games. GoW could get a 9.5 for graphics, an 8.5 for gameplay, a 9.3 for imbecility). God of War really is the epitome of the “maturity == t3h b00bies” mindset that bothers me about a lot of the ostensibly mature games – kind of summarized when Penny Arcade did that American McGee’s Strawberry Shortcake poster a few years ago. And really, given that God of War is child-ish, and Katamari is child-like, I’d rather play Katamari simply because the child-like aspects of it are charming, whereas (especially when you hit the the cage sacrifice part) GoW is just off-putting.

Did you run through any of the Director’s extra’s in GoW? If you want a mind that never left puberty, there’s a rather depressing example where you can hear commentary obsessing about a cyclops’ penis. I’m not sure that “childish” is the right term so much as “painfully arrested adolescence”.

The question now is, what games aren’t like that? Trinity tried something interesting there, we can always point to U4 (and I think it says something about the poverty of the genre that we’re going to ALWAYS end up pointing to U4 at some point). Thomas Disch tried something with Amnesia, and there are a few more experimental games from the mid 80′s like Portal.

What really bothers me the more I think about this is how much of what’s coming to mind kind of peaks around 1988 – then we’re frozen into genres and downhill from there. “Interactive Fiction” as a concept more or less devolves into a hobbyist community and a lot of largely ignored research.

O’course, to go back to a previous post – isn’t this partly a function of the craptacular criticism for games? It’s not exactly like folks are getting challenged that much on the intellectual grounds (I’m imagining a seperate “imbecility” score for games. GoW could get a 9.5 for graphics, an 8.5 for gameplay, a 9.3 for imbecility).

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By: peterb http://tleaves.com/2005/11/11/tricks-are-for-kids/comment-page-1/#comment-2029 peterb Sat, 12 Nov 2005 05:02:19 +0000 http://tleaves.com/?p=505#comment-2029 Damn you. I really wish I had written this. Damn you. I really wish I had written this.

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