Comments on: Degree of Difficulty http://tleaves.com/2007/07/24/degree-of-difficulty/ Creativity x Technology Sat, 17 Mar 2012 05:09:58 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Eli Mordino http://tleaves.com/2007/07/24/degree-of-difficulty/comment-page-1/#comment-4125 Eli Mordino Thu, 02 Aug 2007 16:57:30 +0000 http://tleaves.com/2007/07/24/degree-of-difficulty/#comment-4125 I find games are a lot easier now than back in the day (I'm talking Commodore 64-era). Not ALL of them - eg, as Jon said, CoD 2 on Veteran is brain-meltingly difficult. Maybe I'm just better at games than I was, but it seems to me that most modern games aren't inherently difficult as such, it's just a case of learning the game's "tricks". If I really want a challenge I play something like N, which at times is good old-fashioned borderline-too-frustrating-to-play difficult. I find games are a lot easier now than back in the day (I’m talking Commodore 64-era). Not ALL of them – eg, as Jon said, CoD 2 on Veteran is brain-meltingly difficult.

Maybe I’m just better at games than I was, but it seems to me that most modern games aren’t inherently difficult as such, it’s just a case of learning the game’s “tricks”. If I really want a challenge I play something like N, which at times is good old-fashioned borderline-too-frustrating-to-play difficult.

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By: Doug http://tleaves.com/2007/07/24/degree-of-difficulty/comment-page-1/#comment-4119 Doug Mon, 30 Jul 2007 19:56:11 +0000 http://tleaves.com/2007/07/24/degree-of-difficulty/#comment-4119 I used to play games for the accomplishment feeling. Now I play them for fun. I find I like 1 in 10 games I buy now, the other 9 make me work too much for my fun. I used to play games for the accomplishment feeling. Now I play them for fun. I find I like 1 in 10 games I buy now, the other 9 make me work too much for my fun.

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By: Jon Mann http://tleaves.com/2007/07/24/degree-of-difficulty/comment-page-1/#comment-4126 Jon Mann Fri, 27 Jul 2007 01:42:08 +0000 http://tleaves.com/2007/07/24/degree-of-difficulty/#comment-4126 I recently played through Call of Duty 2 on the 'Veteran' difficulty, which was brutally hard. On the other hand, it did show me how the game was meant to be played - since mistakes that the easier modes would let you get away with (running through open areas, returning fire on machine gun nests, etc) tended to lead to immediate death. I had similar experiences with Gears of War and God of War 2 - game mechanics being revealed by trial and error. It's obviously not for everybody - isn't this the 'Fiero' play type? I recently played through Call of Duty 2 on the ‘Veteran’ difficulty, which was brutally hard. On the other hand, it did show me how the game was meant to be played – since mistakes that the easier modes would let you get away with (running through open areas, returning fire on machine gun nests, etc) tended to lead to immediate death. I had similar experiences with Gears of War and God of War 2 – game mechanics being revealed by trial and error. It’s obviously not for everybody – isn’t this the ‘Fiero’ play type?

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By: psu http://tleaves.com/2007/07/24/degree-of-difficulty/comment-page-1/#comment-4127 psu Thu, 26 Jul 2007 22:32:12 +0000 http://tleaves.com/2007/07/24/degree-of-difficulty/#comment-4127 I did not mean to imply psychological damage on your part. I just meant to say that "accomplishment" is not why I play games. I was overly flippant, of course. I did not mean to imply psychological damage on your part. I just meant to say that “accomplishment” is not why I play games. I was overly flippant, of course.

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By: CordableTuna http://tleaves.com/2007/07/24/degree-of-difficulty/comment-page-1/#comment-4129 CordableTuna Thu, 26 Jul 2007 20:52:55 +0000 http://tleaves.com/2007/07/24/degree-of-difficulty/#comment-4129 "I guess my sense of self-esteem is at this point too well developed for it to get a kick in the pants because I “beat” Deathspank 2: Bloodsport on Hard." You think people who get the sense of accomplishment while playing a game have self-esteem issues? I get a sense of accomplishment from all sorts of trivial things like taking out the trash. I don't think I have a low self-esteem, though. Anyway, my original point is that the automatic difficulty adjustment is hardly an ideal solution, because I want the game to give me a set challenge. In Ikaruga, Oblivion or, say, Max Payne, I don't have that choice. The game is there to hold my hand no matter what I do. Quicksaving however, is a choice. I guess the trouble with automatic difficulty is that once it's implemented in the game, it's really hard to disable it. It would still work with Max Payne's painkillers, but I think Oblivion would need major restructuring, since the game adjusts so many things, like what enemies you meet and items you get. RE4 did saving pretty much perfectly without quicksaves. You always got a restart point when entering a room, plus sometimes between phases of the current battle. And you usually had access to the last typewriter without respawns. Hmm, Half Life 2 had both quicksaves and save points. “I guess my sense of self-esteem is at this point too well developed for it to get a kick in the pants because I “beat” Deathspank 2: Bloodsport on Hard.”

You think people who get the sense of accomplishment while playing a game have self-esteem issues? I get a sense of accomplishment from all sorts of trivial things like taking out the trash. I don’t think I have a low self-esteem, though.

Anyway, my original point is that the automatic difficulty adjustment is hardly an ideal solution, because I want the game to give me a set challenge. In Ikaruga, Oblivion or, say, Max Payne, I don’t have that choice. The game is there to hold my hand no matter what I do. Quicksaving however, is a choice.

I guess the trouble with automatic difficulty is that once it’s implemented in the game, it’s really hard to disable it. It would still work with Max Payne’s painkillers, but I think Oblivion would need major restructuring, since the game adjusts so many things, like what enemies you meet and items you get.

RE4 did saving pretty much perfectly without quicksaves. You always got a restart point when entering a room, plus sometimes between phases of the current battle. And you usually had access to the last typewriter without respawns.

Hmm, Half Life 2 had both quicksaves and save points.

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By: Alex Groce http://tleaves.com/2007/07/24/degree-of-difficulty/comment-page-1/#comment-4128 Alex Groce Thu, 26 Jul 2007 18:46:30 +0000 http://tleaves.com/2007/07/24/degree-of-difficulty/#comment-4128 This isn't totally inapplicable to RPG-style games. Fire Emblem on GB and Gamecube has difficulty levels, and you have to start over if you picked the wrong one. I guess strategy RPGs are different, in that you can't just level up in most of them, however. Advance Wars DS (I don't know about GB ones) makes you finish the campaign in normal mode before it opens up the hard version -- but in the hard version, you get to choose your outrageously overpowered Commanding Officer, so maybe it isn't harder after all? This isn’t totally inapplicable to RPG-style games. Fire Emblem on GB and Gamecube has difficulty levels, and you have to start over if you picked the wrong one. I guess strategy RPGs are different, in that you can’t just level up in most of them, however.

Advance Wars DS (I don’t know about GB ones) makes you finish the campaign in normal mode before it opens up the hard version — but in the hard version, you get to choose your outrageously overpowered Commanding Officer, so maybe it isn’t harder after all?

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By: psu http://tleaves.com/2007/07/24/degree-of-difficulty/comment-page-1/#comment-4120 psu Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:55:25 +0000 http://tleaves.com/2007/07/24/degree-of-difficulty/#comment-4120 Lego Star Wars had a similar way of restarting exactly where you died. It was one of the best games I ever played. Being old and slow and having a limited amount of time to play does give you a different perspective on the notion of "difficulty" and "accomplishment" with respect to video games. I guess my sense of self-esteem is at this point too well developed for it to get a kick in the pants because I "beat" Deathspank 2: Bloodsport on Hard. All that being said, I don't see why the game can't be adjustable with save anywhere for me and not adjustable with one savepoint per entire chapter for you. Except that it's software, and that sort of thing never works out for software. BTW, if a game is good enough, I'll play it on hard. I did that for RE4 (twice) and also for the Halo games. Most games are not good enough for that though. Lego Star Wars had a similar way of restarting exactly where you died. It was one of the best games I ever played.

Being old and slow and having a limited amount of time to play does give you a different perspective on the notion of “difficulty” and “accomplishment” with respect to video games. I guess my sense of self-esteem is at this point too well developed for it to get a kick in the pants because I “beat” Deathspank 2: Bloodsport on Hard.

All that being said, I don’t see why the game can’t be adjustable with save anywhere for me and not adjustable with one savepoint per entire chapter for you. Except that it’s software, and that sort of thing never works out for software.

BTW, if a game is good enough, I’ll play it on hard. I did that for RE4 (twice) and also for the Halo games. Most games are not good enough for that though.

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By: CordableTuna http://tleaves.com/2007/07/24/degree-of-difficulty/comment-page-1/#comment-4121 CordableTuna Thu, 26 Jul 2007 07:32:41 +0000 http://tleaves.com/2007/07/24/degree-of-difficulty/#comment-4121 It seems like we view games very differently. You seem to see them as movies, where failing causes rewinding and you have to watch the same bloody scene again. Therefore the game is bad if it's too difficult for you. The game needs to let you win. I consider most games challenges to overcome. I love the sense of achievement I get when winning a tough game. And for me, the game has to be challenging and fair. I don't care much about seeing the plot to the end usually, since games are hardly masterpieces in that regard. Automatic difficulty adjustment works well for your point of view, but it's an absolute abomination to me. All sense of accomplishment flies out of the window if I know the game bent over backwards to let me win. It's pretty hard to feel anything except disappointment if the final battle turns out to be a triumph over small inconveniences. I had one particularly horrible experience. Ikaruga, a shmup of rather brutal difficulty level, has a difficulty adjustment of sorts. Basically, when you keep failing, the game starts to give you more continues to use. In the end it gives you infinite continues. When you die in Ikaruga, you don't end up at the start of the level, you start again from where you die. So, when you have infinite continues, you don't have to play at all. You'll win Ikaruga by waiting until you reach the end. You can't turn this adjustment off, by the way, so to get to the challenge, you need to resort to all sorts of trickery. Deleting save games, always quitting on continue, that sort of thing. By the way, Resident Evil 4 has three difficulty levels in Europe, two in the US. But like in most Capcom games, the Professional difficulty level only opens up after completing the main game. I've never understood why. It seems like we view games very differently. You seem to see them as movies, where failing causes rewinding and you have to watch the same bloody scene again. Therefore the game is bad if it’s too difficult for you. The game needs to let you win.

I consider most games challenges to overcome. I love the sense of achievement I get when winning a tough game. And for me, the game has to be challenging and fair. I don’t care much about seeing the plot to the end usually, since games are hardly masterpieces in that regard.

Automatic difficulty adjustment works well for your point of view, but it’s an absolute abomination to me. All sense of accomplishment flies out of the window if I know the game bent over backwards to let me win. It’s pretty hard to feel anything except disappointment if the final battle turns out to be a triumph over small inconveniences.

I had one particularly horrible experience. Ikaruga, a shmup of rather brutal difficulty level, has a difficulty adjustment of sorts. Basically, when you keep failing, the game starts to give you more continues to use. In the end it gives you infinite continues. When you die in Ikaruga, you don’t end up at the start of the level, you start again from where you die. So, when you have infinite continues, you don’t have to play at all. You’ll win Ikaruga by waiting until you reach the end. You can’t turn this adjustment off, by the way, so to get to the challenge, you need to resort to all sorts of trickery. Deleting save games, always quitting on continue, that sort of thing.

By the way, Resident Evil 4 has three difficulty levels in Europe, two in the US. But like in most Capcom games, the Professional difficulty level only opens up after completing the main game. I’ve never understood why.

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By: Jeremy http://tleaves.com/2007/07/24/degree-of-difficulty/comment-page-1/#comment-4122 Jeremy Wed, 25 Jul 2007 17:27:13 +0000 http://tleaves.com/2007/07/24/degree-of-difficulty/#comment-4122 I have exactly the same problem. I always figure that I'll have the time and/or patience to get through a game on Medium The best example I can think of was Metal Arms on the Xbox. I really liked the game, but only got to the 10th level or so because it took me so many tries just to pass the levels. And now it sits on my shelf collecting dust... I have exactly the same problem. I always figure that I’ll have the time and/or patience to get through a game on Medium

The best example I can think of was Metal Arms on the Xbox. I really liked the game, but only got to the 10th level or so because it took me so many tries just to pass the levels. And now it sits on my shelf collecting dust…

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By: Dekarte http://tleaves.com/2007/07/24/degree-of-difficulty/comment-page-1/#comment-4123 Dekarte Wed, 25 Jul 2007 04:05:04 +0000 http://tleaves.com/2007/07/24/degree-of-difficulty/#comment-4123 Self-tuning difficulty? That would kill me. The problem is that I lost my gaming cherry to Mega Man, where a good 90% of the game was getting hit until you recognized the pattern and could move on to the next pattern. The idea of having the pattern change on me because I died a couple times is incredibly disturbing - how can I say that I beat the game if it just changed to become easier? Of course, I would have no complaints with an optional self-correcting difficulty system. Self-tuning difficulty? That would kill me.

The problem is that I lost my gaming cherry to Mega Man, where a good 90% of the game was getting hit until you recognized the pattern and could move on to the next pattern. The idea of having the pattern change on me because I died a couple times is incredibly disturbing – how can I say that I beat the game if it just changed to become easier?

Of course, I would have no complaints with an optional self-correcting difficulty system.

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