Comments on: Mamma Mia http://tleaves.com/2007/10/22/mamma-mia/ Creativity x Technology Sat, 17 Mar 2012 05:09:58 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Yeesh http://tleaves.com/2007/10/22/mamma-mia/comment-page-1/#comment-4438 Yeesh Tue, 23 Oct 2007 06:02:55 +0000 http://tleaves.com/2007/10/22/mamma-mia/#comment-4438 This "momma's boy" thing strikes me as a primary reason Italy isn't replacing its present population. It's sort of pathetic to see the heirs to all Italy represents come to that. Also, I actually think that in the British inspired fair-play model there is some genuine remorse or shame on the part of those caught. They're not simply sad they got nicked, they're sad and ashamed they couldn't win without resorting to cheating. "Fair play" system guys may want to win more than they hate cheating, but they truly feel cheating reflects badly on themselves and their comrades. There's also a line, never quite defined, across which a little cheating as part of the game simply becomes too much, becomes sort of unmanly and embarassing. Those particular pangs have never troubled Italian football on any level. Which is partly why Italy is such an unsatisfying world champion. Not only do they win ugly and boring, they win like whiny momma's boys. If the US had defeated Italy the way Italy defeated the USA (quite possible in that game), Americans would have had the decency to be a bit sheepish about it, not blustering and arrogant, to name one example close to home. And Serie A - why on earth would cheat in order to attain that level of exquisite torpor is beyond me. This “momma’s boy” thing strikes me as a primary reason Italy isn’t replacing its present population. It’s sort of pathetic to see the heirs to all Italy represents come to that.

Also, I actually think that in the British inspired fair-play model there is some genuine remorse or shame on the part of those caught. They’re not simply sad they got nicked, they’re sad and ashamed they couldn’t win without resorting to cheating.

“Fair play” system guys may want to win more than they hate cheating, but they truly feel cheating reflects badly on themselves and their comrades. There’s also a line, never quite defined, across which a little cheating as part of the game simply becomes too much, becomes sort of unmanly and embarassing.

Those particular pangs have never troubled Italian football on any level. Which is partly why Italy is such an unsatisfying world champion. Not only do they win ugly and boring, they win like whiny momma’s boys. If the US had defeated Italy the way Italy defeated the USA (quite possible in that game), Americans would have had the decency to be a bit sheepish about it, not blustering and arrogant, to name one example close to home.

And Serie A – why on earth would cheat in order to attain that level of exquisite torpor is beyond me.

]]> By: peterb http://tleaves.com/2007/10/22/mamma-mia/comment-page-1/#comment-4439 peterb Mon, 22 Oct 2007 20:01:10 +0000 http://tleaves.com/2007/10/22/mamma-mia/#comment-4439 AndyP: I am in no way suggesting that the FIA should have disqualified the cars and/or gifted the race to Hamilton. Kimi is a fine driver and clearly earned his points. The problem is more systemic, and I think that any dispassionate observer of the FIA's decisions over the past 5 years would come to the same conclusion (the ridiculous tire war antics from previous years being the most obvious example). I'm a Ferrari fan. I'm happy when they win. But as an American, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth when they win this way. AndyP: I am in no way suggesting that the FIA should have disqualified the cars and/or gifted the race to Hamilton. Kimi is a fine driver and clearly earned his points. The problem is more systemic, and I think that any dispassionate observer of the FIA’s decisions over the past 5 years would come to the same conclusion (the ridiculous tire war antics from previous years being the most obvious example).

I’m a Ferrari fan. I’m happy when they win. But as an American, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth when they win this way.

]]> By: AndyP http://tleaves.com/2007/10/22/mamma-mia/comment-page-1/#comment-4440 AndyP Mon, 22 Oct 2007 18:10:57 +0000 http://tleaves.com/2007/10/22/mamma-mia/#comment-4440 Strangely enough, the World's press (or at least the non-British part of it) are utterly convinced that there's been an FIA conspiracy to make Lewis Hamilton champion this year, and that the rules have been bent in his favour. Seems they're damned if they do, damned if they don't. If the cars get disqualified, they get criticised for gifting Lewis with the win. If they don't get disqualified, they get criticised for gifting Ferrari with the win. Fact is this: Raikkonen won six races this year, to Hamilton and Alonso with four each. That makes him as deserving a champion as anyone, doesn't it? The politics have been an embarrassment to Formula One this year, and I'd be as happy as anyone if Lewis had won it, but I really think we should celebrate the fact it's been the closest championship in years, rather than start talking about who's biased in favour of who, or appealling the result after it's already been handed over. (Yeah, that guy who took a dive though... I mean... seriously). Strangely enough, the World’s press (or at least the non-British part of it) are utterly convinced that there’s been an FIA conspiracy to make Lewis Hamilton champion this year, and that the rules have been bent in his favour.

Seems they’re damned if they do, damned if they don’t. If the cars get disqualified, they get criticised for gifting Lewis with the win. If they don’t get disqualified, they get criticised for gifting Ferrari with the win.

Fact is this: Raikkonen won six races this year, to Hamilton and Alonso with four each. That makes him as deserving a champion as anyone, doesn’t it? The politics have been an embarrassment to Formula One this year, and I’d be as happy as anyone if Lewis had won it, but I really think we should celebrate the fact it’s been the closest championship in years, rather than start talking about who’s biased in favour of who, or appealling the result after it’s already been handed over.

(Yeah, that guy who took a dive though… I mean… seriously).

]]> By: Chris C. http://tleaves.com/2007/10/22/mamma-mia/comment-page-1/#comment-4441 Chris C. Mon, 22 Oct 2007 16:52:47 +0000 http://tleaves.com/2007/10/22/mamma-mia/#comment-4441 When I was in undergrad me and some of my Italian friends would regularly sit around at lunch and play "brisk" (a.k.a. briscola). As far as I can tell, that card game is all about what cheating you think you can get away with. The more blatant the cheat you did not get caught at, the more impressed your friends would be... Dunno if that fits in with "British" sensibilities, but it sure was a hell of a lot of fun! When I was in undergrad me and some of my Italian friends would regularly sit around at lunch and play “brisk” (a.k.a. briscola). As far as I can tell, that card game is all about what cheating you think you can get away with. The more blatant the cheat you did not get caught at, the more impressed your friends would be… Dunno if that fits in with “British” sensibilities, but it sure was a hell of a lot of fun!

]]> By: Mark Denovich http://tleaves.com/2007/10/22/mamma-mia/comment-page-1/#comment-4442 Mark Denovich Mon, 22 Oct 2007 10:57:06 +0000 http://tleaves.com/2007/10/22/mamma-mia/#comment-4442 Boo! I am in no way convinced the FIA is in any way biased to help Ferrari win. Any argument I've seen to the contrary is just a few cherry-picked rulings... if you look at the big picture the FIA appears to be just as arbitrary and capricious as they are with any team (if there is any bias, it's between Tier1 teams and everyone else.) Boo! I am in no way convinced the FIA is in any way biased to help Ferrari win. Any argument I’ve seen to the contrary is just a few cherry-picked rulings… if you look at the big picture the FIA appears to be just as arbitrary and capricious as they are with any team (if there is any bias, it’s between Tier1 teams and everyone else.)

]]>