Comments on: Suicide for fun and profit http://tleaves.com/2008/05/12/gta-is-when-the-young-and-stupid-jump-off-ramps-for-the-old-and-bitter/ Creativity x Technology Sat, 17 Mar 2012 05:09:58 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Stewart M. Clamen http://tleaves.com/2008/05/12/gta-is-when-the-young-and-stupid-jump-off-ramps-for-the-old-and-bitter/comment-page-1/#comment-4883 Stewart M. Clamen Tue, 13 May 2008 23:10:03 +0000 http://tleaves.com/2008/05/12/gta-is-when-the-young-and-stupid-jump-off-ramps-for-the-old-and-bitter/#comment-4883 Prevost, I didn't know they let your web-surf from prison! Prevost,

I didn’t know they let your web-surf from prison!

]]> By: J. Prevost http://tleaves.com/2008/05/12/gta-is-when-the-young-and-stupid-jump-off-ramps-for-the-old-and-bitter/comment-page-1/#comment-4885 J. Prevost Tue, 13 May 2008 14:50:20 +0000 http://tleaves.com/2008/05/12/gta-is-when-the-young-and-stupid-jump-off-ramps-for-the-old-and-bitter/#comment-4885 *nod* *nod* I do that to the cellphone drivers, too. Just like in real life. *nod* *nod* I do that to the cellphone drivers, too.

Just like in real life.

]]> By: Adam http://tleaves.com/2008/05/12/gta-is-when-the-young-and-stupid-jump-off-ramps-for-the-old-and-bitter/comment-page-1/#comment-4884 Adam Tue, 13 May 2008 11:44:39 +0000 http://tleaves.com/2008/05/12/gta-is-when-the-young-and-stupid-jump-off-ramps-for-the-old-and-bitter/#comment-4884 See, I don't know if it's the new more realistic setting or what, but I actually haven't been doing the usual craziness that I did in previous GTA games. I'm mostly sticking to the missions and side quests and just general exploring, not murdering people who feel more real now. I certainly feel a little more guilty about wanton carnage of pedestrians and non-combatants. For me, I don't feel like there's too much dissonance because I'm not playing the same way that you are. The only exception I have is the people who hit me with their cars when I'm trying to walk across the street. They get capped in the head for being bad drivers. Especially those who were talking on their cellphones as they ran me over. See, I don’t know if it’s the new more realistic setting or what, but I actually haven’t been doing the usual craziness that I did in previous GTA games. I’m mostly sticking to the missions and side quests and just general exploring, not murdering people who feel more real now. I certainly feel a little more guilty about wanton carnage of pedestrians and non-combatants. For me, I don’t feel like there’s too much dissonance because I’m not playing the same way that you are.

The only exception I have is the people who hit me with their cars when I’m trying to walk across the street. They get capped in the head for being bad drivers. Especially those who were talking on their cellphones as they ran me over.

]]> By: dete http://tleaves.com/2008/05/12/gta-is-when-the-young-and-stupid-jump-off-ramps-for-the-old-and-bitter/comment-page-1/#comment-4886 dete Tue, 13 May 2008 04:43:38 +0000 http://tleaves.com/2008/05/12/gta-is-when-the-young-and-stupid-jump-off-ramps-for-the-old-and-bitter/#comment-4886 Two points: 1 - Seems to me you've got intrinsic and extrinsic backwards here. Intrinsic means it's fundamentally a part of a thing. An object can not be separated from that which is intrinsic to it. Thus, I would argue the intrinsic narrative is the one that I, as a player, can not change. Extrinsic is that which is laid over a thing from the outside. THAT'S the emergent game-play in which the player is essentially given carte-blanche to impose any story. 2 - I've only played Vice City and San Andreas, but in my mind, Vice City was subjectively the far superior offering for exactly the reasons you give at the end of the article. I found the Miami Vice theme just detached enough that I could connect with it, but didn't take it at all seriously. Although San Andreas had it's over-the-top moments, the seriousness of gang culture wasn't something I could dismiss casually in the same way. Ultimately, I would suggest that what's happening is that most gamers don't have a problem with the fact that the GTA games comprise two separate (but interleaving) forms of entertainment. The story, which is essentially a movie that you get to watch successive clips from every time you punch-the-monkey (metaphorically speaking), and then the game itself: various missions plus the open-world aspect. The Japanese RPG has refined this to an art-form, and so it's no wonder that most gamers don't have any sense of dissonance. But when you try to see the game as a cohesive whole, it just doesn't compute. Two points:

1 – Seems to me you’ve got intrinsic and extrinsic backwards here. Intrinsic means it’s fundamentally a part of a thing. An object can not be separated from that which is intrinsic to it. Thus, I would argue the intrinsic narrative is the one that I, as a player, can not change. Extrinsic is that which is laid over a thing from the outside. THAT’S the emergent game-play in which the player is essentially given carte-blanche to impose any story.

2 – I’ve only played Vice City and San Andreas, but in my mind, Vice City was subjectively the far superior offering for exactly the reasons you give at the end of the article. I found the Miami Vice theme just detached enough that I could connect with it, but didn’t take it at all seriously. Although San Andreas had it’s over-the-top moments, the seriousness of gang culture wasn’t something I could dismiss casually in the same way.

Ultimately, I would suggest that what’s happening is that most gamers don’t have a problem with the fact that the GTA games comprise two separate (but interleaving) forms of entertainment. The story, which is essentially a movie that you get to watch successive clips from every time you punch-the-monkey (metaphorically speaking), and then the game itself: various missions plus the open-world aspect.

The Japanese RPG has refined this to an art-form, and so it’s no wonder that most gamers don’t have any sense of dissonance. But when you try to see the game as a cohesive whole, it just doesn’t compute.

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