Comments on: Better than Real http://tleaves.com/2012/01/13/better-than-real/ Creativity x Technology Sat, 17 Mar 2012 05:09:58 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: bhudson http://tleaves.com/2012/01/13/better-than-real/comment-page-1/#comment-11225 bhudson Tue, 14 Feb 2012 05:45:10 +0000 http://tleaves.com/?p=2629#comment-11225 First off, if you're in your seat at the rock concert, you're doing it wrong. Either it's good so you should be moving to the music, or it's bad so you should be moving to somewhere else. Second, most of the US cranks the volume stupidly high. Wear earplugs so you can still hear your kids when you turn 50. And put earplugs in their ears. First off, if you’re in your seat at the rock concert, you’re doing it wrong. Either it’s good so you should be moving to the music, or it’s bad so you should be moving to somewhere else.

Second, most of the US cranks the volume stupidly high. Wear earplugs so you can still hear your kids when you turn 50. And put earplugs in their ears.

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By: psu http://tleaves.com/2012/01/13/better-than-real/comment-page-1/#comment-11064 psu Wed, 18 Jan 2012 04:12:25 +0000 http://tleaves.com/?p=2629#comment-11064 I guess next time I'll bring ear plugs. Or maybe those big headphone shaped ear protectors. That would be a nice look. I guess next time I’ll bring ear plugs. Or maybe those big headphone shaped ear protectors. That would be a nice look.

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By: Ian McC. http://tleaves.com/2012/01/13/better-than-real/comment-page-1/#comment-11046 Ian McC. Sat, 14 Jan 2012 23:06:36 +0000 http://tleaves.com/?p=2629#comment-11046 I'm a "rock concert guy." I've seen hundreds of them. Adam R touched on this briefly, but the truth about concert sound is this: Good sound is *possible* in virtually any venue. Good sound is *expensive* and *very difficult to achieve* in all but the very best venues (typically Opera House/Theater type places). This state of affairs is made even worse by the fact that many acts/engineers try to make up for inferior sound, or a bad room by increasing the volume. I have an interesting example: (As a preface to the rest of this, I should mention that I've worn earplugs at almost every concert I've seen after Page & Plant in the summer of 1998 when I didn't hear right for 4 days afterwards. I've had my hearing tested by an audiologist recently (2011) and thankfully I still have "above average" hearing.) I saw Bob Dylan open for a Phil & Friends (a Grateful Dead offshoot) at the Civic Arena in 1999. It was the most awful sounding show ever -- a muddy, unintelligible assault on my ears. The backslap in that building was astoundingly bad. I concluded that the Civic Arena just had irreparably awful acoustic properties (which it probably did). I had to wear earplugs, and the sound was so bad that I actually considered leaving the show (but didn't.) Then, four or five years later, my housemates offered me a ticket to go see the Rolling Stones in the same building. I was blown away by how good the sound was. I took my earplugs out, and found it very comfortable to listen without them. The volume was entirely reasonable, still extremely present, and very listenable. There was NO detectable backslap at all, and every instrument was easily identifiable with great separation and clarity. Of course, the sound system that the Stones toured with was way oversized for that room, which is one part of it (it's always better to have an oversized PA than an undersized one). But it also had clearly been deftly tuned to compensate for all the room effects. There's good news and bad news here. The good news is that the march of technology increases the "quality per dollar" of sound systems. Some acts will take advantage of that to put on shows with better sound. The bad news is that many others will take advantage of it to cut touring costs and boost their touring profit margin. I suspect that truly awesome sound will continue to be limited to top-eschelon touring acts and stationary installations (like big festivals, etc.) I’m a “rock concert guy.” I’ve seen hundreds of them. Adam R touched on this briefly, but the truth about concert sound is this: Good sound is *possible* in virtually any venue. Good sound is *expensive* and *very difficult to achieve* in all but the very best venues (typically Opera House/Theater type places). This state of affairs is made even worse by the fact that many acts/engineers try to make up for inferior sound, or a bad room by increasing the volume. I have an interesting example:

(As a preface to the rest of this, I should mention that I’ve worn earplugs at almost every concert I’ve seen after Page & Plant in the summer of 1998 when I didn’t hear right for 4 days afterwards. I’ve had my hearing tested by an audiologist recently (2011) and thankfully I still have “above average” hearing.)

I saw Bob Dylan open for a Phil & Friends (a Grateful Dead offshoot) at the Civic Arena in 1999. It was the most awful sounding show ever — a muddy, unintelligible assault on my ears. The backslap in that building was astoundingly bad. I concluded that the Civic Arena just had irreparably awful acoustic properties (which it probably did). I had to wear earplugs, and the sound was so bad that I actually considered leaving the show (but didn’t.)

Then, four or five years later, my housemates offered me a ticket to go see the Rolling Stones in the same building. I was blown away by how good the sound was. I took my earplugs out, and found it very comfortable to listen without them. The volume was entirely reasonable, still extremely present, and very listenable. There was NO detectable backslap at all, and every instrument was easily identifiable with great separation and clarity. Of course, the sound system that the Stones toured with was way oversized for that room, which is one part of it (it’s always better to have an oversized PA than an undersized one). But it also had clearly been deftly tuned to compensate for all the room effects.

There’s good news and bad news here. The good news is that the march of technology increases the “quality per dollar” of sound systems. Some acts will take advantage of that to put on shows with better sound. The bad news is that many others will take advantage of it to cut touring costs and boost their touring profit margin. I suspect that truly awesome sound will continue to be limited to top-eschelon touring acts and stationary installations (like big festivals, etc.)

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By: Akiva Leffert http://tleaves.com/2012/01/13/better-than-real/comment-page-1/#comment-11040 Akiva Leffert Sat, 14 Jan 2012 07:06:01 +0000 http://tleaves.com/?p=2629#comment-11040 Stop Making Sense is an awesome movie, but I saw David Byrne live a few years ago. It was probably the best show I've ever been to and it blew the socks off the movie. Stop Making Sense is an awesome movie, but I saw David Byrne live a few years ago. It was probably the best show I’ve ever been to and it blew the socks off the movie.

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By: Chris C. http://tleaves.com/2012/01/13/better-than-real/comment-page-1/#comment-11039 Chris C. Sat, 14 Jan 2012 04:31:16 +0000 http://tleaves.com/?p=2629#comment-11039 They Might Be Giants learned how to play their instruments? They played in the UC at CMU when I was a grad student. I had never heard of them before going to the show, but my friends assured me they were good. Now, the show was a lot of fun -- everyone in the room got jumping up and down, and we learned what it was like to destroy a sprung ballroom dance floor (while it flexed up and down by 4" or more...). But the musicians in the band? I've heard better amateurs. They had trouble singing in tune, and could barely pick out a simple melody. Doug B. played one of their recordings for me after the show, and I didn't recognize the songs I had just heard -- their recordings are way better than anything they did live. That is, except for the bass player. He was a ringer, and quite skilled. In one song they made the mistake of giving him a solo -- and he started thrashing, totally schooling the other members of the band. Until the lead singer glared at him, and he switched to cheesily picking out a variant of pop goes the weasel as his solo. They Might Be Giants learned how to play their instruments?

They played in the UC at CMU when I was a grad student. I had never heard of them before going to the show, but my friends assured me they were good.

Now, the show was a lot of fun — everyone in the room got jumping up and down, and we learned what it was like to destroy a sprung ballroom dance floor (while it flexed up and down by 4″ or more…). But the musicians in the band? I’ve heard better amateurs. They had trouble singing in tune, and could barely pick out a simple melody. Doug B. played one of their recordings for me after the show, and I didn’t recognize the songs I had just heard — their recordings are way better than anything they did live.

That is, except for the bass player. He was a ringer, and quite skilled. In one song they made the mistake of giving him a solo — and he started thrashing, totally schooling the other members of the band. Until the lead singer glared at him, and he switched to cheesily picking out a variant of pop goes the weasel as his solo.

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By: Adam R http://tleaves.com/2012/01/13/better-than-real/comment-page-1/#comment-11038 Adam R Sat, 14 Jan 2012 02:59:54 +0000 http://tleaves.com/?p=2629#comment-11038 It totally depends on the venue (and the sound technician). I love live music, and one thing that the concert films don't capture is the intensity of being there. It's similar to going to a play or watching one on Masterpiece Theater -- the version on PBS may allow you to pause or see a different view, but sitting there in the theater also has its advantages. And I *was* at that final LCD Soundsystem concert. Madison Square Garden is a shitty venue in so many ways, but it was still hands down my best live concert experience last year. I went to more than 60 concerts in 2011 and it easily trumped them all. (Runner up: the first Wild Flag show at the Black Cat in DC, before their album came out and the audience didn't know what to expect.) I'm eagerly looking forward to their concert film as well as this documentary, but they'll supplement rather than replace my memory of that experience. It totally depends on the venue (and the sound technician). I love live music, and one thing that the concert films don’t capture is the intensity of being there. It’s similar to going to a play or watching one on Masterpiece Theater — the version on PBS may allow you to pause or see a different view, but sitting there in the theater also has its advantages.

And I *was* at that final LCD Soundsystem concert. Madison Square Garden is a shitty venue in so many ways, but it was still hands down my best live concert experience last year. I went to more than 60 concerts in 2011 and it easily trumped them all. (Runner up: the first Wild Flag show at the Black Cat in DC, before their album came out and the audience didn’t know what to expect.) I’m eagerly looking forward to their concert film as well as this documentary, but they’ll supplement rather than replace my memory of that experience.

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By: peterb http://tleaves.com/2012/01/13/better-than-real/comment-page-1/#comment-11037 peterb Sat, 14 Jan 2012 02:50:35 +0000 http://tleaves.com/?p=2629#comment-11037 I was at both of those They Might Be Giants shows, and you're absolutely right. I actually walked out of the adults' show after the first intermission, because I couldn't fucking hear anything beyond a vague undifferentiated muddy roar. I was at both of those They Might Be Giants shows, and you’re absolutely right. I actually walked out of the adults’ show after the first intermission, because I couldn’t fucking hear anything beyond a vague undifferentiated muddy roar.

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