Comments on: Vegan cats http://tleaves.com/2004/05/26/vegan-cats/ Creativity x Technology Sat, 17 Mar 2012 05:09:58 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Catwoman http://tleaves.com/2004/05/26/vegan-cats/comment-page-1/#comment-334 Catwoman Tue, 30 Aug 2005 07:12:05 +0000 http://tleaves.com/?p=104#comment-334 Will T. comments, "Methionine, by the way, may have an intimidating name, but it is an amino acid that is found primarily in legumes (including lentils)." This is just plain untrue. L-Methionine is one of the amino acids that is specifically deficient in legumes, and in the plant kingdom as a whole. It must be made up by whole grains. It is true, commercial cat foods are so scientifically artificially formulated, that they are hardly any different in many ways from a vegan formula, except that there may be "essential non-essential" amino acids which the cat does not synthesize in large enough quantities to thrive well, which may be missing in a vegan diet. A spectrum of amino acids might be a good supplement. It is also true, for anyone who cares to do the research, that cat and dog lab animals suffer the most horrible, gruesome, ongoing neglect in laboratory settings, and some of these abused and maltreated animals are former housepets bought up by the big labs. http://www.peta.org/ Find out for yourself. However, I have very strong reservations against using a plant-based cat formula, or even a meat-based health food formula, for different reasons. I had 2 unrelated cats that, for a time, were eating the same meat-based healthy cat food formula. Both cats (a male and female) developed FUS at more or less the same time. It is the magnesium content of plant supplements to a cat's diet which is a concern. The less magnesium, the better. The male cat, having a more narrow urethra, was for a short while in danger of his life, but quickly rebounded. After that, I never fed either cat the unscientifically tested formula again. I also don't think I would ever feed a cat an exclusively dry cat food based diet ever again - not enough moisture and too much grain causes too many health problems. The female cat, on a dry diet, eventually developed diabetes and died. I still blame the dry formula for this. Cats shouldn't be eating grains, period. I've read that tofu is an excellent source of magnesium, by the way. Will T. comments, “Methionine, by the way, may have an intimidating name, but it is an amino acid that is found primarily in legumes (including lentils).”

This is just plain untrue. L-Methionine is one of the amino acids that is specifically deficient in legumes, and in the plant kingdom as a whole. It must be made up by whole grains.

It is true, commercial cat foods are so scientifically artificially formulated, that they are hardly any different in many ways from a vegan formula, except that there may be “essential non-essential” amino acids which the cat does not synthesize in large enough quantities to thrive well, which may be missing in a vegan diet. A spectrum of amino acids might be a good supplement.

It is also true, for anyone who cares to do the research, that cat and dog lab animals suffer the most horrible, gruesome, ongoing neglect in laboratory settings, and some of these abused and maltreated animals are former housepets bought up by the big labs.

http://www.peta.org/

Find out for yourself.

However, I have very strong reservations against using a plant-based cat formula, or even a meat-based health food formula, for different reasons. I had 2 unrelated cats that, for a time, were eating the same meat-based healthy cat food formula. Both cats (a male and female) developed FUS at more or less the same time. It is the magnesium content of plant supplements to a cat’s diet which is a concern. The less magnesium, the better.

The male cat, having a more narrow urethra, was for a short while in danger of his life, but quickly rebounded. After that, I never fed either cat the unscientifically tested formula again.

I also don’t think I would ever feed a cat an exclusively dry cat food based diet ever again – not enough moisture and too much grain causes too many health problems. The female cat, on a dry diet, eventually developed diabetes and died. I still blame the dry formula for this. Cats shouldn’t be eating grains, period.

I’ve read that tofu is an excellent source of magnesium, by the way.

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By: Amos the Poker Cat http://tleaves.com/2004/05/26/vegan-cats/comment-page-1/#comment-333 Amos the Poker Cat Wed, 24 Aug 2005 10:05:48 +0000 http://tleaves.com/?p=104#comment-333 Sorry Jessica, you are just yet another spoiled selfish yuppie twit, the very example of narcissism. If a mouse got into your house, how long do you think it would take you can to revert? 10 secs? Cats are the most recently domesticed pet. Centuries of breeding? Mousers in a barn, not much more than that, except for a few minor exceptions. Just look at the hundreds of breeds of dogs, compared to the few unique breeds of cats. Over the past 25 years, my partner has had probably 50 cats (maybe more, shudder) in total. Some live longer than others. Even with more data points than most, extrapolating anything from anecdotal observation is not scientificly rigorous. Extrapolating from one data point (20 yr old cat) is just plain childish. Sorry Jessica, you are just yet another spoiled selfish yuppie twit, the very example of narcissism.

If a mouse got into your house, how long do you think it would take you can to revert? 10 secs?

Cats are the most recently domesticed pet. Centuries of breeding? Mousers in a barn, not much more than that, except for a few minor exceptions. Just look at the hundreds of breeds of dogs, compared to the few unique breeds of cats.

Over the past 25 years, my partner has had probably 50 cats (maybe more, shudder) in total. Some live longer than others. Even with more data points than most, extrapolating anything from anecdotal observation is not scientificly rigorous.

Extrapolating from one data point (20 yr old cat) is just plain childish.

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By: Goob http://tleaves.com/2004/05/26/vegan-cats/comment-page-1/#comment-332 Goob Mon, 22 Aug 2005 18:23:14 +0000 http://tleaves.com/?p=104#comment-332 So essentially, the evidence of your cat's permission to feed it the diet you do is that it would rather not starve to death? So essentially, the evidence of your cat’s permission to feed it the diet you do is that it would rather not starve to death?

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By: Hearth Moon http://tleaves.com/2004/05/26/vegan-cats/comment-page-1/#comment-331 Hearth Moon Sat, 20 Aug 2005 01:20:33 +0000 http://tleaves.com/?p=104#comment-331 A PS about the "torturing the cat" argument, the idea that vegans are forcing their ideals onto the cat without permission. I don't know of any cat that ever willingly ate the food put in front of them if they didn't agree with it. The food may or may not be healthy, but the cat has to find it acceptable or they won't eat it without a fuss. It's our human requirement that the food be longevity promoting. The cat kingdom has its own set of ethics. If the vegan cats have any objections to their tofu taurine kibble I'm sure they're yowling night and day for something different--subjecting their owners to a torture no human can withstand for long. A PS about the “torturing the cat” argument, the idea that vegans are forcing their ideals onto the cat without permission. I don’t know of any cat that ever willingly ate the food put in front of them if they didn’t agree with it. The food may or may not be healthy, but the cat has to find it acceptable or they won’t eat it without a fuss. It’s our human requirement that the food be longevity promoting. The cat kingdom has its own set of ethics. If the vegan cats have any objections to their tofu taurine kibble I’m sure they’re yowling night and day for something different–subjecting their owners to a torture no human can withstand for long.

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By: Hearth Moon http://tleaves.com/2004/05/26/vegan-cats/comment-page-1/#comment-330 Hearth Moon Sat, 20 Aug 2005 00:45:09 +0000 http://tleaves.com/?p=104#comment-330 In the last few years, there have been serious problems for humans and animals due to common ways of raising animals for consumption--human or otherwise. I'm talking about Mad Cow and Avian Flu. Who knows where else the karma from these inhumane practices will lead. While it would be good to stop these practices right away, realistically it's not going to happen until vegetarian enlightenment becomes more widespread. I'm not prepared to weigh in yet on whether a vegan diet is as healthy for cats. I do know that reducing the number of animals raised for consumption can only be a good thing for animals and people. I'm glad there are people and cats experimenting with alternatives. And a health study conducted by Purina is a little suspect, don't you think? If I were to feed my cat the diet nature first intended, I would have to feed her raw mice, birds and fish without pesticide or mercury contamination. Right now she gets mostly home cooked vegetarian fare with a bit of meat, yogurt and fish. I would say she's better fed than 99.99% of the other kitties, though I worry a bit about the contaminants in the fish. Where is your righteous anger at the people who feed Morris "nine lives," peterb? I'm not that impressed with the ingredients in most commercial cat foods, and neither is my cat. In the last few years, there have been serious problems for humans and animals due to common ways of raising animals for consumption–human or otherwise. I’m talking about Mad Cow and Avian Flu. Who knows where else the karma from these inhumane practices will lead. While it would be good to stop these practices right away, realistically it’s not going to happen until vegetarian enlightenment becomes more widespread. I’m not prepared to weigh in yet on whether a vegan diet is as healthy for cats. I do know that reducing the number of animals raised for consumption can only be a good thing for animals and people. I’m glad there are people and cats experimenting with alternatives. And a health study conducted by Purina is a little suspect, don’t you think? If I were to feed my cat the diet nature first intended, I would have to feed her raw mice, birds and fish without pesticide or mercury contamination. Right now she gets mostly home cooked vegetarian fare with a bit of meat, yogurt and fish. I would say she’s better fed than 99.99% of the other kitties, though I worry a bit about the contaminants in the fish. Where is your righteous anger at the people who feed Morris “nine lives,” peterb? I’m not that impressed with the ingredients in most commercial cat foods, and neither is my cat.

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By: don http://tleaves.com/2004/05/26/vegan-cats/comment-page-1/#comment-329 don Wed, 27 Jul 2005 20:29:22 +0000 http://tleaves.com/?p=104#comment-329 Purina One cat food eingredients: Poultry by-product meal, whole grain corn, brewers rice, soybean meal, corn gluten meal, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), salmon, tuna, non-fat yogurt, brewers dried yeast, phosphoric acid, calcium carbonate, malted barley flour, animal digest, salt, potassium chloride, tetra sodium pyrophosphate, choline chloride, dicalcium phosphate, L-Lysine monohydrochloride, taurine, zinc sulfate, Vitamin E supplement, ferrous sulfate, manganese sulfate, niacin, Vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, copper sulfate, riboflavin supplement, Vitamin B-12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid, Vitamin D-3 supplement, calcium iodate, biotin, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), sodium selenite. I-4168 note: "poultry by-product meal" "animal fat" "animal digest" "salmon, tuna." the poultry and "animal" ingredients are sources of taurine, the fish is a source of fatty acids available in vegetable oils. anyone calling packaged catfood "natural" can take a look at all the other ingredients listed. the only animal products in Iams catfood are "chicken by-product meal," and "fish meal" with a note below the ingredients stating: "chicken is a natural source of taurine." if the taurine is replaced by a supplement, and the fish oil replaced by vegetable oil, there is no change in what your cat eats. I am not vegan, but it is dumb to think that conventional catfood is any different from vegan catfood. if you want your cat to be natural, let it hunt mice and birds, and don't feed it at all. if you are going to feed it catfood daily, vegan cat food is no different from animal by-product cat food. this should put an end to the argument. Purina One cat food eingredients: Poultry by-product meal, whole grain corn, brewers rice, soybean meal, corn gluten meal, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), salmon, tuna, non-fat yogurt, brewers dried yeast, phosphoric acid, calcium carbonate, malted barley flour, animal digest, salt, potassium chloride, tetra sodium pyrophosphate, choline chloride, dicalcium phosphate, L-Lysine monohydrochloride, taurine, zinc sulfate, Vitamin E supplement, ferrous sulfate, manganese sulfate, niacin, Vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, copper sulfate, riboflavin supplement, Vitamin B-12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid, Vitamin D-3 supplement, calcium iodate, biotin, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), sodium selenite.
I-4168

note: “poultry by-product meal” “animal fat” “animal digest” “salmon, tuna.”
the poultry and “animal” ingredients are sources of taurine, the fish is a source of fatty acids available in vegetable oils. anyone calling packaged catfood “natural” can take a look at all the other ingredients listed.

the only animal products in Iams catfood are “chicken by-product meal,” and “fish meal” with a note below the ingredients stating: “chicken is a natural source of taurine.” if the taurine is replaced by a supplement, and the fish oil replaced by vegetable oil, there is no change in what your cat eats. I am not vegan, but it is dumb to think that conventional catfood is any different from vegan catfood. if you want your cat to be natural, let it hunt mice and birds, and don’t feed it at all. if you are going to feed it catfood daily, vegan cat food is no different from animal by-product cat food. this should put an end to the argument.

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By: peterb http://tleaves.com/2004/05/26/vegan-cats/comment-page-1/#comment-328 peterb Mon, 18 Jul 2005 13:01:02 +0000 http://tleaves.com/?p=104#comment-328 To be clear, the entire point is that it is synthesized in the _human_ body, which is why humans, unlike cats, are not obligate carnivores. To be clear, the entire point is that it is synthesized in the _human_ body, which is why humans, unlike cats, are not obligate carnivores.

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By: Will_T http://tleaves.com/2004/05/26/vegan-cats/comment-page-1/#comment-327 Will_T Mon, 18 Jul 2005 07:48:28 +0000 http://tleaves.com/?p=104#comment-327 If anyone is interested, Taurine is sythesized in the body using methionine and B6, both of which are abundant in a totally vegan, or vegetarian diet. Methionine, by the way, may have an intimidating name, but it is an amino acid that is found primarily in legumes (including lentils). As far as artificial Taurine goes the following was found here (quick search mind you, I didn't have all night)http://www.felinefuture.com/nutrition/taurine.php Today, Taurine supplements are usually the result of synthesis by Sodium Sulfite sulfonation of Ethylene Chloride followed by ammonolysis with anhydrous NH3 (Ammonia without water) or with aqueous NH3 (Ammonia with water) and Ammonium Carbonate. However, references from 1901 and 1918 point out that it can also be isolated from ox bile or from the large muscle of abalone. If anyone is interested, Taurine is sythesized in the body using methionine and B6, both of which are abundant in a totally vegan, or vegetarian diet. Methionine, by the way, may have an intimidating name, but it is an amino acid that is found primarily in legumes (including lentils).

As far as artificial Taurine goes the following was found here (quick search mind you, I didn’t have all night)http://www.felinefuture.com/nutrition/taurine.php

Today, Taurine supplements are usually the result of synthesis by Sodium Sulfite sulfonation of Ethylene Chloride followed by ammonolysis with anhydrous NH3 (Ammonia without water) or with aqueous NH3 (Ammonia with water) and Ammonium Carbonate.
However, references from 1901 and 1918 point out that it can also be isolated from ox bile or from the large muscle of abalone.

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By: Jessica http://tleaves.com/2004/05/26/vegan-cats/comment-page-1/#comment-326 Jessica Fri, 01 Jul 2005 04:26:54 +0000 http://tleaves.com/?p=104#comment-326 in response to Amos: domestic cats today are exactly a product of human "narcissism" as you call it. who has genetically manipulated cats through breeding over centuries to create the domestic cat? regardless, if the food makes cats healthy and yes I have known vegan cats living to 20 years of age and being healthy then what difference does it make? everytime I take my cat to the vet, he always remarks on how healthy she and and how shiny/soft/well kept her fur is. She has tons of energy, loves to play and is affectionate. a healthy cat is all anyone wants, vegan or not and if my cat for some reason stopped liking her vegan kibble I would feed her some organic meaty kibble but as of yet there is no need just today I was reading about the new confirmed case of mad cow disease in the US, notably at a plant that converts diseased and dying animals not fit for human consumption into pet food. disgusting! (I feed evolution diet and she also loves homemade vegecat seitan, and vegitables like squash) in response to Amos:
domestic cats today are exactly a product of human “narcissism” as you call it.

who has genetically manipulated cats through breeding over centuries to create the domestic cat?

regardless, if the food makes cats healthy and yes I have known vegan cats living to 20 years of age and being healthy

then what difference does it make?

everytime I take my cat to the vet, he always remarks on how healthy she and and how shiny/soft/well kept her fur is. She has tons of energy, loves to play and is affectionate.

a healthy cat is all anyone wants, vegan or not and if my cat for some reason stopped liking her vegan kibble I would feed her some organic meaty kibble but as of yet there is no need

just today I was reading about the new confirmed case of mad cow disease in the US, notably at a plant that converts diseased and dying animals not fit for human consumption into pet food. disgusting!

(I feed evolution diet and she also loves homemade vegecat seitan, and vegitables like squash)

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By: Amos the Poker Cat http://tleaves.com/2004/05/26/vegan-cats/comment-page-1/#comment-325 Amos the Poker Cat Tue, 07 Jun 2005 18:21:16 +0000 http://tleaves.com/?p=104#comment-325 I like the "vegan cat === rabbit" comment. It is spot on. Vegans trying to reorder nature to their whim by making their cats vegetarian is the very definition of narcissism. Shame on you. I like the “vegan cat === rabbit” comment. It is spot on.

Vegans trying to reorder nature to their whim by making their cats vegetarian is the very definition of narcissism.

Shame on you.

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