Comments on: Howl's Moving Castle http://tleaves.com/2005/06/29/howls-moving-castle/ Creativity x Technology Sat, 17 Mar 2012 05:09:58 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: dubidub http://tleaves.com/2005/06/29/howls-moving-castle/comment-page-1/#comment-1587 dubidub Tue, 25 Apr 2006 04:16:18 +0000 http://tleaves.com/?p=407#comment-1587 It seems this post has been receiving comments steadily throughout the months.. and has become a discussion about dubbing and subbing. It's hard to say which is better, dub or sub.. obviously, there's no objective answer, even if you're thinking of the "platonic ideal." Like some people have commented, their experience has been growing up with watching almost everything subbed, so their experience of text-on-screen would be quite different from a lot of american viewers that would not be as accustomed to reading during watching. The main qualm I have with Dubs are the re(mis)-interpretation of the characters.. I doubt it is even possible... (which puts that "platonic ideal" into question). Even if the same Japanese voice actor were to also do the English dub, the two languages have a difference of Culture that, even with the same voice, cannot be bridged. For example, the simple expression of "Tadaima" (I'm Home), cannot really be carried over to the English speaking audience, as it's a part of Japanese culture that doesn't really translate itself adequately with "I'm Home." This example is only one, and a really simple one, out of many that are spread throughout the movie. You can imagine how much this will change and skew original intents and the integrity of the piece. Granted, subtitles too will encounter this problem. However, with sub, you get both the translated yellow words along with the idea of its original meaning and emotion aurally. (I'm sure actors themselves confront this problem as well, not really understanding why certain characters say certain phrases at such times. However, their characters' mouths are moving, so they have to say Something, so the actors just blurt it out anyways. This problem adds distance between the voice actor and their animated characters, and that awkwardness can really be felt.) however, there is one anime that i've seen with great dubbing. Whoever did the voices for Cowboy Bebop series really did well. Even if it might have been a re-interpretation of the characters, it was believable. And the voice-actors themselves also seemed to be experienced with dubbing, as they really got into the 2d flesh of their characters and made every word, weep, and pant sound natural. so, yeah- sometimes, rarely, dubbing does succeed. But there are just so many obstacles (only a few of which i mentioned above), that really finding such a great dub will be really hard. ______ [i think the main problem is just the inexperience and ignorance of actors that don't really know how to deal with dubbing for animation, especially anime, that tent to be for audiences older than the american animation audience. If the voice actors were well chosen, and those chosen decided to actually invest enough time and effort in their characters as they would a live action movie, then those hurdles of language, culture, timing and other problems could be sufficiently overcome.] It seems this post has been receiving comments steadily throughout the months.. and has become a discussion about dubbing and subbing.

It’s hard to say which is better, dub or sub.. obviously, there’s no objective answer, even if you’re thinking of the “platonic ideal.” Like some people have commented, their experience has been growing up with watching almost everything subbed, so their experience of text-on-screen would be quite different from a lot of american viewers that would not be as accustomed to reading during watching.

The main qualm I have with Dubs are the re(mis)-interpretation of the characters.. I doubt it is even possible… (which puts that “platonic ideal” into question). Even if the same Japanese voice actor were to also do the English dub, the two languages have a difference of Culture that, even with the same voice, cannot be bridged.
For example, the simple expression of “Tadaima” (I’m Home), cannot really be carried over to the English speaking audience, as it’s a part of Japanese culture that doesn’t really translate itself adequately with “I’m Home.”
This example is only one, and a really simple one, out of many that are spread throughout the movie. You can imagine how much this will change and skew original intents and the integrity of the piece.
Granted, subtitles too will encounter this problem. However, with sub, you get both the translated yellow words along with the idea of its original meaning and emotion aurally.

(I’m sure actors themselves confront this problem as well, not really understanding why certain characters say certain phrases at such times. However, their characters’ mouths are moving, so they have to say Something, so the actors just blurt it out anyways. This problem adds distance between the voice actor and their animated characters, and that awkwardness can really be felt.)

however, there is one anime that i’ve seen with great dubbing. Whoever did the voices for Cowboy Bebop series really did well. Even if it might have been a re-interpretation of the characters, it was believable. And the voice-actors themselves also seemed to be experienced with dubbing, as they really got into the 2d flesh of their characters and made every word, weep, and pant sound natural.

so, yeah- sometimes, rarely, dubbing does succeed. But there are just so many obstacles (only a few of which i mentioned above), that really finding such a great dub will be really hard.

______
[i think the main problem is just the inexperience and ignorance of actors that don't really know how to deal with dubbing for animation, especially anime, that tent to be for audiences older than the american animation audience. If the voice actors were well chosen, and those chosen decided to actually invest enough time and effort in their characters as they would a live action movie, then those hurdles of language, culture, timing and other problems could be sufficiently overcome.]

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By: Suzy http://tleaves.com/2005/06/29/howls-moving-castle/comment-page-1/#comment-1586 Suzy Thu, 13 Apr 2006 07:35:16 +0000 http://tleaves.com/?p=407#comment-1586 I have seen this movie quite a bit in both english and japanese. I must say I prefer the english dubbing to the japanese because I think the english voices fit the characters more fully than the japanese voices do. I also agree with Amy that it makes much more sense in context of the story to have the characters speaking in english than japanese. For this film in particular, I don't think it matters at all whether it's in english, japanese, or silent. The vast majority of the film is told through the imagery and by solely paying attention to the spoken words, you would miss pretty much everything that was important in the story. Since the words don't really drive the plot or develop the characters much at all, I don't see why it should matter if some prefer it in one language and some in another. Do whatever floats your boat and call it good. I have seen this movie quite a bit in both english and japanese. I must say I prefer the english dubbing to the japanese because I think the english voices fit the characters more fully than the japanese voices do. I also agree with Amy that it makes much more sense in context of the story to have the characters speaking in english than japanese.

For this film in particular, I don’t think it matters at all whether it’s in english, japanese, or silent. The vast majority of the film is told through the imagery and by solely paying attention to the spoken words, you would miss pretty much everything that was important in the story. Since the words don’t really drive the plot or develop the characters much at all, I don’t see why it should matter if some prefer it in one language and some in another. Do whatever floats your boat and call it good.

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By: Suzy http://tleaves.com/2005/06/29/howls-moving-castle/comment-page-1/#comment-1585 Suzy Thu, 13 Apr 2006 07:33:06 +0000 http://tleaves.com/?p=407#comment-1585 I have seen this movie quite a bit in both english and japanese. I must say I prefer the english dubbing to the japanese because I think the english voices fit the characters more fully than the japanese voices do. I also agree with Amy that it makes much more sense in context of the story to have the characters speaking in english than japanese. For this film in particular, I don't think it matters at all whether it's in english, japanese, or silent. The vast majority of the film is told through the imagery and by solely paying attention to the spoken words, you would miss pretty much everything that was important in the story. Since the words don't really drive the plot or develop the characters much at all, I don't see why it should matter if some prefer it in one language and some in another. Do whatever floats your boat and call it good. I have seen this movie quite a bit in both english and japanese. I must say I prefer the english dubbing to the japanese because I think the english voices fit the characters more fully than the japanese voices do. I also agree with Amy that it makes much more sense in context of the story to have the characters speaking in english than japanese.

For this film in particular, I don’t think it matters at all whether it’s in english, japanese, or silent. The vast majority of the film is told through the imagery and by solely paying attention to the spoken words, you would miss pretty much everything that was important in the story. Since the words don’t really drive the plot or develop the characters much at all, I don’t see why it should matter if some prefer it in one language and some in another. Do whatever floats your boat and call it good.

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By: Amy http://tleaves.com/2005/06/29/howls-moving-castle/comment-page-1/#comment-1584 Amy Thu, 02 Mar 2006 08:22:02 +0000 http://tleaves.com/?p=407#comment-1584 I must say, this is by far the best article I have read in reviewing this movie--or any dubbed anime, for that matter. I'd seen Howl's Moving Castle twice in theatres' for the short time it was out, then recently watched it muliple times at the dollar theatres' near my home. It was reminiscent of my childhood, growing up in fantastical worlds created in books, as I listened to the dubbing. While I am a fan of the book, I can honestly say I'd prefer the movie. As two different mediums tell quite different stories, it was only through Miyazaki's adaptation that I learned anything. I have watched the movie in both languages, and as someone who has never minded subtitles, I found nothing lost in script or emotion. Not to mention, the characters seemed to have more depth when matched with European accents. I enjoy your outlook on the differences in subtitles and dubs as it is closest to my own. Reading through a few previous comments I couldn't help but feel a sense of ignorance and biased in many replies. While some shows may *sound* better subtitled, I will not bash any dubbing as I know the time and effort it takes to record. My sympathy to anyone "fan" who fights the "subtitle vs. dub" battle with little more knowledge than hours they spend endlessly watching anime. I must say, this is by far the best article I have read in reviewing this movie–or any dubbed anime, for that matter. I’d seen Howl’s Moving Castle twice in theatres’ for the short time it was out, then recently watched it muliple times at the dollar theatres’ near my home.

It was reminiscent of my childhood, growing up in fantastical worlds created in books, as I listened to the dubbing. While I am a fan of the book, I can honestly say I’d prefer the movie. As two different mediums tell quite different stories, it was only through Miyazaki’s adaptation that I learned anything.

I have watched the movie in both languages, and as someone who has never minded subtitles, I found nothing lost in script or emotion. Not to mention, the characters seemed to have more depth when matched with European accents.

I enjoy your outlook on the differences in subtitles and dubs as it is closest to my own. Reading through a few previous comments I couldn’t help but feel a sense of ignorance and biased in many replies. While some shows may *sound* better subtitled, I will not bash any dubbing as I know the time and effort it takes to record.

My sympathy to anyone “fan” who fights the “subtitle vs. dub” battle with little more knowledge than hours they spend endlessly watching anime.

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By: Lindsey http://tleaves.com/2005/06/29/howls-moving-castle/comment-page-1/#comment-1583 Lindsey Fri, 30 Dec 2005 02:45:36 +0000 http://tleaves.com/?p=407#comment-1583 i have to agree with the excellet dubbing over excellent subtitles. i think the dubbing was done very well and the voices fit the characters. i don't like reading subtitles in movies like this when i see them (unless i know them by heart by the time i do), because it distracts me from the art. there are some movies that are dubbed horribly, but this wasn't one of them. and for this movie in particular...it makes more sense for the characters to speak english, as the characters are european and the author of the book is english. i'm not against subtitles, but i really prefer dubbing when it's done well. i have to agree with the excellet dubbing over excellent subtitles. i think the dubbing was done very well and the voices fit the characters. i don’t like reading subtitles in movies like this when i see them (unless i know them by heart by the time i do), because it distracts me from the art. there are some movies that are dubbed horribly, but this wasn’t one of them. and for this movie in particular…it makes more sense for the characters to speak english, as the characters are european and the author of the book is english. i’m not against subtitles, but i really prefer dubbing when it’s done well.

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By: Areli http://tleaves.com/2005/06/29/howls-moving-castle/comment-page-1/#comment-1582 Areli Sun, 30 Oct 2005 04:40:57 +0000 http://tleaves.com/?p=407#comment-1582 ok..I'll try to explain myself........................... In Mexico 50% of the movies are with subtitles and 50% are dubbed. But when they release it on DVD most of them are dubbed. The dub in Mexico is the best I've known (specially in anime, where the actors and directors really know what they're doing, the voices match the age, unlike english dub), but Lately there have been a lot of subtitled movies (more than usual), maybe because more people is starting to learn other languages, or because mexican Dub is going down (sad but true).... the reason for this is that mexican voice actors aren't well paid...I mean, hey hardly get 6 dollars per hour, and the dub companies even think this is too much and they are taking all the dubs to be done in palces like Venezuela or argentina where they pay voice actors even less, and their accent and dub quality isn't good, not all Latin americans can understand them. For example, the voice actors for the simpsons, they are Humberto Velez, Patty acevedo, etc, the had a fight with the ANDA (the asociation of actors) because they wanted a decent payment for their job....THEY GOT FIRED.....6 dll per hour! and the voice actors in US. for exactly the same job get 125,000 dll per chapter...... But I have always prefered dubbed versions over subtitled, but lately the spanish dub is not good, I Hope something can be done to solve this situation. About Howl's moving castle......I liked spanish dub, but it was not as good as It was in it's golden age( like 10 years ago), I heard the english dub too, and I didn't like it, unlike spirited Away, in which I prefer the english dub rather than the spanish dub. ok..I’ll try to explain myself………………………
In Mexico 50% of the movies are with subtitles and 50% are dubbed. But when they release it on DVD most of them are dubbed.
The dub in Mexico is the best I’ve known (specially in anime, where the actors and directors really know what they’re doing, the voices match the age, unlike english dub), but Lately there have been a lot of subtitled movies (more than usual), maybe because more people is starting to learn other languages, or because mexican Dub is going down (sad but true)….
the reason for this is that mexican voice actors aren’t well paid…I mean, hey hardly get 6 dollars per hour, and the dub companies even think this is too much and they are taking all the dubs to be done in palces like Venezuela or argentina where they pay voice actors even less, and their accent and dub quality isn’t good, not all Latin americans can understand them.
For example, the voice actors for the simpsons, they are Humberto Velez, Patty acevedo, etc, the had a fight with the ANDA (the asociation of actors) because they wanted a decent payment for their job….THEY GOT FIRED…..6 dll per hour! and the voice actors in US. for exactly the same job get 125,000 dll per chapter……
But I have always prefered dubbed versions over subtitled, but lately the spanish dub is not good, I Hope something can be done to solve this situation.
About Howl’s moving castle……I liked spanish dub, but it was not as good as It was in it’s golden age( like 10 years ago), I heard the english dub too, and I didn’t like it, unlike spirited Away, in which I prefer the english dub rather than the spanish dub.

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By: peterb http://tleaves.com/2005/06/29/howls-moving-castle/comment-page-1/#comment-1581 peterb Thu, 08 Sep 2005 03:13:34 +0000 http://tleaves.com/?p=407#comment-1581 Eugene: Fine, fine, fine. I bow before the incredible power of your immense brain. With a little more practice, you should be able to dispense with actually having to watch the movies, and will be able to just hold the DVD up to your forehead and absorb the contents psychically. From there it should be just a short hop to transcending your humanity and becoming a being of pure energy. In awe of your 3l33t reading sk1llz, peterb Eugene:

Fine, fine, fine. I bow before the incredible power of your immense brain. With a little more practice, you should be able to dispense with actually having to watch the movies, and will be able to just hold the DVD up to your forehead and absorb the contents psychically. From there it should be just a short hop to transcending your humanity and becoming a being of pure energy.

In awe of your 3l33t reading sk1llz,

peterb

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By: Eugene http://tleaves.com/2005/06/29/howls-moving-castle/comment-page-1/#comment-1580 Eugene Wed, 07 Sep 2005 18:01:11 +0000 http://tleaves.com/?p=407#comment-1580 I've been watching subtitled films from all sorts of countries in all sorts of languages since I was a little kid. For all you folks who whine about having to read subtitles... all I have to say is that you get used to it rather quickly if you actually get into the swing of watching them. My reading speed has long since gotten to the point that when I'm watching a subtitled film I don't even realize that I'm reading. Whole sentences and such are just absorbed into my eyes along with the images on screen without even having to move my eyes. The biggest thing that trips me up is when I have those fan subs that put explanitory notes above the dialoge text as they speak... that can get to be tough sometimes but even then... I usually read it all without missing what's going on and without having to pause. So yeah... don't be lazy... just watch more subtitled films... try to get used to speed reading... eventually you'll wonder why you were ever complaining about "having to read during a film". I’ve been watching subtitled films from all sorts of countries in all sorts of languages since I was a little kid. For all you folks who whine about having to read subtitles… all I have to say is that you get used to it rather quickly if you actually get into the swing of watching them.

My reading speed has long since gotten to the point that when I’m watching a subtitled film I don’t even realize that I’m reading. Whole sentences and such are just absorbed into my eyes along with the images on screen without even having to move my eyes.

The biggest thing that trips me up is when I have those fan subs that put explanitory notes above the dialoge text as they speak… that can get to be tough sometimes but even then… I usually read it all without missing what’s going on and without having to pause.

So yeah… don’t be lazy… just watch more subtitled films… try to get used to speed reading… eventually you’ll wonder why you were ever complaining about “having to read during a film”.

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By: Karen http://tleaves.com/2005/06/29/howls-moving-castle/comment-page-1/#comment-1579 Karen Mon, 11 Jul 2005 18:38:52 +0000 http://tleaves.com/?p=407#comment-1579 I saw Howl in Japanese (with subtitles), and I think the experience was perceptually different than it would have been if I'd seen the dubbed version. For example: whenever I read "Calcifer" here, I hear "Carcifuh!" Also, I was a little confused at first as to why these European-looking characters were speaking Japanese. But I got over it. I saw Howl in Japanese (with subtitles), and I think the experience was perceptually different than it would have been if I’d seen the dubbed version. For example: whenever I read “Calcifer” here, I hear “Carcifuh!” Also, I was a little confused at first as to why these European-looking characters were speaking Japanese. But I got over it.

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By: peterb http://tleaves.com/2005/06/29/howls-moving-castle/comment-page-1/#comment-1578 peterb Wed, 06 Jul 2005 19:37:01 +0000 http://tleaves.com/?p=407#comment-1578 > was in Mononoke Hime (Sorry, you probably don't know what I'm > talking about. You would know it as "Princess Mononoke") I am touched and honoured that the Comic Book Guy from the Simpsons has taken the time to comment on my article. > was in Mononoke Hime (Sorry, you probably don’t know what I’m
> talking about. You would know it as “Princess Mononoke”)

I am touched and honoured that the Comic Book Guy from the Simpsons has taken the time to comment on my article.

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