Comments on: Princess Zelda and the Childish Adult http://tleaves.com/2006/12/12/princess-zelda-and-the-childish-adult/ Creativity x Technology Sat, 17 Mar 2012 05:09:58 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: morado http://tleaves.com/2006/12/12/princess-zelda-and-the-childish-adult/comment-page-1/#comment-3454 morado Fri, 15 Dec 2006 15:51:21 +0000 http://tleaves.com/?p=733#comment-3454 I do believe you're quite right. The cell-shading would make people's penises shrink in their minds. Nevertheless, people play over-childish games; katamari is a good example (i don't now how it went in the US but a huge hit in other places). The line of aesthetic maturity is differently perceived in Japan (and the East, in general). We can see that from all the cosplay and burusera-hentai culture. I believe your perspective is accurate for a Western-reader perspective, specially a teenager one. Even still, TRENDS are a great part of videogame creation and SotC is one of the great trend-setters, like the first Zelda for the NES. Anyway, thanks for the insightful comment. I do believe you’re quite right. The cell-shading would make people’s penises shrink in their minds. Nevertheless, people play over-childish games; katamari is a good example (i don’t now how it went in the US but a huge hit in other places). The line of aesthetic maturity is differently perceived in Japan (and the East, in general). We can see that from all the cosplay and burusera-hentai culture. I believe your perspective is accurate for a Western-reader perspective, specially a teenager one.

Even still, TRENDS are a great part of videogame creation and SotC is one of the great trend-setters, like the first Zelda for the NES.

Anyway, thanks for the insightful comment.

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By: peterb http://tleaves.com/2006/12/12/princess-zelda-and-the-childish-adult/comment-page-1/#comment-3453 peterb Fri, 15 Dec 2006 03:29:52 +0000 http://tleaves.com/?p=733#comment-3453 Jeff, "Mannered" is a euphemism for "affected", right? We'll have to disagree about Eggers; to my taste, given a world of writers who can write to the human condition with pathos and depth, he is as authentic as Tofurkey. However, I'll cop to your point that "latest" was a poorly-chosen word. Björn, Thanks for the kind words. I think the comic book analogy is a good one. If it sets your mind at ease, the posturing in Zelda is not quite as bad as the typical comic book refactoring. It's just a compromise. Playing through again, there are some points where the game is actually explicitly paying homage to <em>Shadow of the Colossus</em>. At one point, you defeat a boss monster in a particulary SotC-like way, and the musical fanfare is actually taken straight from the other game. So we should always allow for the possibility that I'm wrong. Maybe they just made it "dark" because they <em>really liked SotC</em>. (Nah.) Jeff,

“Mannered” is a euphemism for “affected”, right? We’ll have to disagree about Eggers; to my taste, given a world of writers who can write to the human condition with pathos and depth, he is as authentic as Tofurkey. However, I’ll cop to your point that “latest” was a poorly-chosen word.

Björn,

Thanks for the kind words. I think the comic book analogy is a good one. If it sets your mind at ease, the posturing in Zelda is not quite as bad as the typical comic book refactoring. It’s just a compromise.

Playing through again, there are some points where the game is actually explicitly paying homage to Shadow of the Colossus. At one point, you defeat a boss monster in a particulary SotC-like way, and the musical fanfare is actually taken straight from the other game. So we should always allow for the possibility that I’m wrong. Maybe they just made it “dark” because they really liked SotC. (Nah.)

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By: Brant http://tleaves.com/2006/12/12/princess-zelda-and-the-childish-adult/comment-page-1/#comment-3452 Brant Thu, 14 Dec 2006 20:07:45 +0000 http://tleaves.com/?p=733#comment-3452 "As a game, I think it is clearly the best of the series. But stylistically the game looks like a compromise to me, and it is weaker for it." As I've been playing the game myself, I've been feeling like there is something /off/ about it, but I could never put my finger on exactly what it was until now. You nailed it for me, and I agree completely. “As a game, I think it is clearly the best of the series. But stylistically the game looks like a compromise to me, and it is weaker for it.”

As I’ve been playing the game myself, I’ve been feeling like there is something /off/ about it, but I could never put my finger on exactly what it was until now. You nailed it for me, and I agree completely.

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By: jeff http://tleaves.com/2006/12/12/princess-zelda-and-the-childish-adult/comment-page-1/#comment-3451 jeff Thu, 14 Dec 2006 19:37:10 +0000 http://tleaves.com/?p=733#comment-3451 I know I'm being the worst kind of commenter by objecting to a minor, non-central claim you make, but.. "A Heartbreaking Work of Staggering Genius" is neither vapid, nor shallow. Eggers is a mannered writer, and you may not like his style, but the book itself is a deeply touching and sentimental story of his relationship with his young, orphaned brother. Unless you haven't read it (or couldn't get past Eggers' prose), I simply cannot see how you would claim it's shallow. And it's hardly the "latest" darling of anybody; it came out in, what, 2001? I know I’m being the worst kind of commenter by objecting to a minor, non-central claim you make, but..

“A Heartbreaking Work of Staggering Genius” is neither vapid, nor shallow. Eggers is a mannered writer, and you may not like his style, but the book itself is a deeply touching and sentimental story of his relationship with his young, orphaned brother. Unless you haven’t read it (or couldn’t get past Eggers’ prose), I simply cannot see how you would claim it’s shallow. And it’s hardly the “latest” darling of anybody; it came out in, what, 2001?

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By: Björn http://tleaves.com/2006/12/12/princess-zelda-and-the-childish-adult/comment-page-1/#comment-3450 Björn Wed, 13 Dec 2006 23:04:55 +0000 http://tleaves.com/?p=733#comment-3450 I haven't played "Twilight Princess" yet, but I intend to buy it for the Gamecube next week. But from what you write, there is something in the new "Zelda" that I recognize from comics. Many (well, most) superhero comics nowadays are aimed at people who read superhero comics when they were children. So the writers take all the basic superhero stuff (male adolescent power fantasy) but they put in violence, darkness, mysogyny, sex. However, most of them do this not because of a bold artistic vision, but rather so people who read "Batman" can now say: "See, it's not for children... heads are blown off and people are having sex. This is really mature stuff." Yet, the result is that it rather comes off as "sophomore" at best. As I said, I haven't played "TP" yet, but I really hope that this is not the road they are taking with the franchise as a whole. (Apart from that: I tremendously enjoy your blog. I've been reading for some two years now, but didn't get around to compliment you for the great work you're doing here.) I haven’t played “Twilight Princess” yet, but I intend to buy it for the Gamecube next week. But from what you write, there is something in the new “Zelda” that I recognize from comics.

Many (well, most) superhero comics nowadays are aimed at people who read superhero comics when they were children. So the writers take all the basic superhero stuff (male adolescent power fantasy) but they put in violence, darkness, mysogyny, sex.

However, most of them do this not because of a bold artistic vision, but rather so people who read “Batman” can now say: “See, it’s not for children… heads are blown off and people are having sex. This is really mature stuff.”

Yet, the result is that it rather comes off as “sophomore” at best.

As I said, I haven’t played “TP” yet, but I really hope that this is not the road they are taking with the franchise as a whole.

(Apart from that: I tremendously enjoy your blog. I’ve been reading for some two years now, but didn’t get around to compliment you for the great work you’re doing here.)

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By: peterb http://tleaves.com/2006/12/12/princess-zelda-and-the-childish-adult/comment-page-1/#comment-3449 peterb Wed, 13 Dec 2006 20:25:39 +0000 http://tleaves.com/?p=733#comment-3449 Alex, Shadow of the Colossus if you hate boss battles is a tough call. Speaking as a person who absolutely hates boss battles, I found Shadow "worth it" because I enjoy the form of its narrative, and I was able to psychologically steel myself beforehand to accept that this was the nature of the beast. I'd say a bigger problem with Colossus is simply the pacing. You sort of need to be able to accept long stretches of doing, more or less, <em>absolutely nothing</em> while you figure out where the next Colossus is. I got through it by viewing both the finding and the boss battles as extended, intricate puzzles. But I can't say the game is without its drawbacks -- even if I did find it beautiful. Hope that helps. Alex,

Shadow of the Colossus if you hate boss battles is a tough call. Speaking as a person who absolutely hates boss battles, I found Shadow “worth it” because I enjoy the form of its narrative, and I was able to psychologically steel myself beforehand to accept that this was the nature of the beast.

I’d say a bigger problem with Colossus is simply the pacing. You sort of need to be able to accept long stretches of doing, more or less, absolutely nothing while you figure out where the next Colossus is. I got through it by viewing both the finding and the boss battles as extended, intricate puzzles. But I can’t say the game is without its drawbacks — even if I did find it beautiful.

Hope that helps.

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By: Doug http://tleaves.com/2006/12/12/princess-zelda-and-the-childish-adult/comment-page-1/#comment-3448 Doug Wed, 13 Dec 2006 20:02:31 +0000 http://tleaves.com/?p=733#comment-3448 I got bored of sailing from place to place in windwalker. It was the only problem I had with it, but unfortunately at the time at least a fatal one. I got bored of sailing from place to place in windwalker. It was the only problem I had with it, but unfortunately at the time at least a fatal one.

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By: Alex http://tleaves.com/2006/12/12/princess-zelda-and-the-childish-adult/comment-page-1/#comment-3447 Alex Wed, 13 Dec 2006 16:34:04 +0000 http://tleaves.com/?p=733#comment-3447 My only problem with WindWaker was I got lost half way through (after finding that undersea castle thingy) and can't bring myself to go back to it. The art was gorgeous for sure. Twilight Princess is, hmm, too expensive right now, I think I'll stick with the used copy of Metroid Prime I just picked up. Hope I don't get lost. By the way, for someone who mostly hates boss battles, is Shadow of Colossus worth it? My only problem with WindWaker was I got lost half way through (after finding that undersea castle thingy) and can’t bring myself to go back to it. The art was gorgeous for sure. Twilight Princess is, hmm, too expensive right now, I think I’ll stick with the used copy of Metroid Prime I just picked up. Hope I don’t get lost. By the way, for someone who mostly hates boss battles, is Shadow of Colossus worth it?

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By: Chris http://tleaves.com/2006/12/12/princess-zelda-and-the-childish-adult/comment-page-1/#comment-3446 Chris Wed, 13 Dec 2006 14:25:38 +0000 http://tleaves.com/?p=733#comment-3446 I too loved the art style of Wind Waker, and thought it was perfect for the game. But the desire for a "realistic" Zelda had been fuelled by earlier builds for that game, and created a commercial headlock which meant that while Eiji Aonuma and his team liked the look of Wind Waker, they were effectively forced into having more "mature" graphics for the next game. This was a commercial consequence of Nintendo's internal culture, as I understand. There is little room given for creative freedom in most game development, with the possible exception of Wil Wright's team at Maxis (even here I am uncertain). Our research suggests that abstract art styles such as cell shaded graphics appeal to Intuitive players more than Sensing players, and the latter outnumber the former by 3:1 (in theory) creating an unfortunate drive towards realism over style in the game graphics for popular franchises. Best wishes! I too loved the art style of Wind Waker, and thought it was perfect for the game. But the desire for a “realistic” Zelda had been fuelled by earlier builds for that game, and created a commercial headlock which meant that while Eiji Aonuma and his team liked the look of Wind Waker, they were effectively forced into having more “mature” graphics for the next game.

This was a commercial consequence of Nintendo’s internal culture, as I understand. There is little room given for creative freedom in most game development, with the possible exception of Wil Wright’s team at Maxis (even here I am uncertain).

Our research suggests that abstract art styles such as cell shaded graphics appeal to Intuitive players more than Sensing players, and the latter outnumber the former by 3:1 (in theory) creating an unfortunate drive towards realism over style in the game graphics for popular franchises.

Best wishes!

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