It is a disturbing and compelling image. The young man is wearing his school uniform and a slim pair of headphones. He reaches into a pocket with his right hand and pulls out a gun. He flourishes, twirls the gun, and points it at his own temple. There’s a sharp report as he fires, and a fountain of glittering shards spray out of the other side of his head.
It is a compelling and disturbing image. In the course of a game of Persona 3, it is an image that will assault you thousands upon thousands of times.
Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 3 is a game that exploits this transgressive — and powerful — image to the fullest extent. There are complex in-game explanation as to why the teenagers in the game are not really blowing their brains out, but those are post-facto explanations. Fundamentally, the game was developed as an excuse to use this provocative image.
That Persona 3 is a Japanese game makes the suicide theme all the more disturbing. Japan has had an alarmingly high suicide rate for some time, and it has been increasing dramatically lately, especially among children. One could try to view Persona as a meaningful commentary on this situation, but that reading isn’t reasonably sustained by the game’s narrative or leitmotif. It feels to me at best crudely insensitive, and at worst a cynical attempt to profit from the phenomenon. Persona 3 is troubling not only because of the subject matter, but because of its reimagining of suicide as a heroic act. The game’s introductory video, for example, makes it seem downright romantic:
The Shin Megami Tensei (literally translated: “True Reincarnation of the Goddess” or “True Goddess Metempsychosis”) games have always been transgressive and edgy. It’s not clear that this game’s suicide theme is substantially more grim than the themes of previous outings (“You turn into a demon and destroy the world,”) or indeed of other games. What is different is the riveting nature of the game’s central image.
In the US market the game has an “M” (“mature”) rating, giving the publisher plausible deniability in the event of lawsuits. Despite that, the game is aimed firmly at high school children. Without going into too much detail about the game mechanics, the parts of the game that don’t involve shooting yourself in the head involve becoming popular at high school. This portion of the game plays like any number of Japanese games in the “dating sim” genre. I view this as another indication of the target audience of the game: teenagers. The game also has a brutally punishing save system where you have to slog ahead for a long period of time in order to reach a save point. Only people without responsibility — kids — can tolerate such broken save systems. So this is a game labeled as being for adults which is really intended for children. The world already believes that all videogames are for kids. We don’t need this sort of mislabeling helping the idea along.
Some may argue with my assertion that the game is intended for the teenage market. But the alternative hypothesis is that Atlus believes there is a huge desire in the 18-24 demographic for a game where players get to pretend to go back to high school and be popular. That, if true, is disturbing on a completely different axis.
The game is liberally larded with Jungian jargon, retrofitted into Japanese pop culture giant robot sensibilities. (This is a fairly common occurrence when East meets West; think of it as the inverse of Edward Said’s conception of Orientalism. Western cultural notions are often appropriated for anime for exotic flavor, e.g., Christianity is often used whenever a plot calls for a gothic milieu.)
In game terms, the protagonists fight (given-as-evil) “shadows” through a power called “persona”. When battling a shadow, the characters may take out a gun and shoot themselves in the head (extinguishing the ego?), thus summoning a masked spirit, or “persona”, who then whacks the shadow on the head a few times, or burns it, or freezes it, what have you. I’m only a few hours in, so I don’t know how the game’s plot will play out. In purely Jungian terms, the objective of the game is a bit perverse. One would properly describe the persona according to Jung as an outward-facing construct, while the shadow is a part of the self that exerts control subtly, albeit pervasively. Interactions with one’s shadow can be complex, but most would say that trying to simply overpower it by whacking it over the head will more likely lead to constant unhappiness, rather than self-discovery.
Self-discovery, though, seems less a concern of Persona 3 than does style. Teenagers have already grabbed on to Persona 3′s irresistable combination of high school angst, OCD collectability and guns with both hands: you can already find Persona 3 hentai (mildly or deeply pornographic comics) all over the net. I suppose I should be glad that the sexism in the game itself, while present, is not quite as bad as it could be.
Persona 3 is problematic commercial art. To be blunt, if I lived with a depressed teenager (aka “any teenager”), I would do everything in my power to prevent him or her from even learning of Persona 3′s very existence. That such an exercise would be futile is beside the point.
Difficult, challenging, or transgressive art is not something to be reviled. Just because I am troubled by the game’s central image is no reason to denigrate it. But whether the game’s creators intended it as challenging art or merely the cheap exploitation of grief is not a tangential question. It is the central question. I can admire love as an abstract ideal, and still be repulsed by the 30 year old man who gropes at a high school student. I admire the boldness and stark power of Persona 3′s visuals, but see behind those visuals a carelessly groping hand.
A hand that doesn’t care who it hurts on its way to your wallet.
(meant wtf instead of ftw, this is not a pro-porn endorsement)
It’s as if I have, entirely by accident, become some sort of Tarot-like God of Search Engine Optimization.
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Omni: I’m willing to agree that there’s nothing wrong with many people who like anime porn; de gustibus non est disputandum. But we’ll have to disagree about people who complain about save-anywhere. They are the enemy, and they must be destroyed. That may be flippant, but it’s also true.
Thank you for your thoughtful comments.
I think there’s a fair argument to be made that the game is deeper than the images it exploits, and I think you make that argument very well. As I’ve tried to stress repeatedly in the comments here — apparently lost on those who keep insisting I want to “ban” the game — if the game weren’t compelling I probably wouldn’t be writing about it. At the same time, I don’t think it’s quite fair to accept your dismissal of the game’s trailer and, indeed, central image as unimportant because it is merely an “eye grabber.” It is indeed because it is an “eye grabber” that I think it merits discussion. This is the public face — the persona, if you’ll pardon the pun — of the game. I’m not judging the whole game by that image. I’m judging the choice of images and their use. I think that’s fair.
“Only people without responsibility – kids – can tolerate such broken save systems.”
It was at this point I realized this article is a joke.
… Right?
Don’t quote me on this, but I think what he’s getting at is that people with better things to be doing don’t enjoy being forced to waste their time. I mean, before I started earning a living I was quite happy to walk back and forth in the kitchen every morning filling my bowl one corn flake at a time, but I just don’t have that many hours to play with anymore.
The only thing transgressive is the implication that a single game title which “glorifies” suicidal actions is more morally reprehensible than entire genres of games which glorify the outright murder of others.
Japanese RPGs, or JRPGs, occupy a very singular (albeit large) niche within the gaming public; this is why Atlus, the publisher of P3, categorically makes almost all of its titles limited releases, so as not to oversaturate the market and come out with a loss. But first- and third-person shooters, with their entire gameplay built upon the wholesale slaughter of others, are inarguably the most popular games within the Western world. Don’t the Kane & Lynches, GTAs, Manhunts, Condemneds, et al. deserve far more flak for their wide-ranging impact on impressionable minds than one niche title with a single shocking gameplay conceit? Or have we become so desensitized to mass murder in our entertainment media that the connotation of suicide is far more appalling than the widespread killing of innocents?
To call Persona 3 a “cheap exploitation of grief” when placed against the blood-soaked background of shooters where more gore equates to “more visceral” and “thrilling” action… well, to me that seems rather problematic.
Actually, balanceofpower, I criticize those games as well. Even if I didn’t, though, your argument isn’t correct. The creators of one piece of art don’t get to use “but this other reprehensible thing exists, too!” as an excuse for their own creation. Ethics is not a zero-sum game. We are each, all of us, responsible for our own decisions.
Persona 3 does not encourage suicide. It’s a game. Let’s remember that people. Quit over analyzing everything. If you’re so weak minded to be influenced personally by something like this, then you need some help.
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ok i’m sick and tired of people trying to blame all the worlds evil on video
games “doom and Postal caused columbine” or “grand theft auto caused 9/11″
(yes i’ve actually heard someone say that” games don’t make people violent
people who go into a school and kill everyone, steel cars, rob banks, or
commit suicide will do it regardless of if they are playing condemned:
criminal origins or barbie horse adventure (probably more likely with the
latter) people have just realized that video games, movies, comics, etc…
can be a great scapegoat when they don’t want to take responsibility for
themselves especially parents if you raise your kids right they wont turn
into killers if they are just twisted anyway despite your best efforts (
witch can happen some people are just born wrong it’s like being left handed
the right match-up in dna and you’ve got a psycho) then notice the warning
signs if your kid rips the wings off flies or shoots his bb gun at the
neighbors dog then chances are he’s gonna turn out violent…
enough ranting about that my point here is first of i’m 22 so i’m smack in
the middle of the 18 to 24 demographic and i love this game so the m rating
was not just to avoid law suits. second i was a depressed teenager i thought
about killing myself often and to be honest if there was anything that kept
me going and stopped me from killing myself it was violent games and movies
and depressing “goth” music the music gave me something to relate to let me
know i wasn’t alone in the way i felt, the games were a way for me to vent
my much pent up anger: the jock at school took my comicbook made a nerd joke
and got the whole class to laugh at me. i just go home put in soldier of
fortune and blow some heads off maybe even pretend it’s him and all the
people laughing at me let the inner beast out let it rampage then turn the
game off have my frustration delt with and prepare for the next day.
now i could have easily brought a knife to school and walked up behind him
and jabbed it deep into his neck but i didn’t and it’s definitely not
because my mom wouldn’t let me play duke nukem for me it was the more
violent the game the better and i have yet to go on a kill crazy rampage
while drinking doing drugs and stealing cars, and if i was going to kill
myself it wouldn’t have been because of a character in my game did it it
would have been if some douche bag who can’t handle people enjoying
something he doesn’t like passing a law to ban all the games i love.
and second the rating system is there for a reason and i totally agree with
it of course i think that an 8 year old should not play god of war and thats
why parents shouldn’t buy that game for there kids now i don’t see to much
of a difference in a 17 year old playing it or an 18 year old but i do
realize that if you drop it it will just become “well then why not 16.. well
why not 15″and so on and so forth.
other than that if you don’t like a violent game/movie/whatever ignore it
walk past and leave it on the shelf don’t buy it for your kid until you
believe they can handle it intelligently or they reach the age they can buy
it themselves i think Todd McFarlane said it best “you don’t bitch at the
grocer for having food on the shelf you don’t like you just let someone else
buy the dill pickle flavored chips”
in other words violent games not for you? do you have a problem telling
entertainment from reality? then leave those games to those of us who can
think for themselves and go play the games you enjoy.
i won’t ban your barbie horse adventure game just because i don’t want to
play it
I’ve read the article and all the comments here. I am thoroughly amused by all the misunderstandings. This is fanboyism, not the worst of it but still ‘icky’. Leave it to them to find and squash all negative or non-positive criticisms.
“you don’t bitch at the grocer for having food on the shelf you don’t like you just let someone else buy the dill pickle flavored chipsâ€
This isn’t the same situation, video games are a medium that are seen by some for kids only, therefore games romanticizing suicide, misogyny and murder aren’t just going to be left with a “live and let live” philosophy. No one sees chips as an attempt to show kids murder, sex and crime.
I generally like the Persona series, at least I find nothing in it which disturbs me to the point of no return. I do believe that the suicide imagery was made to turn heads not to express ‘art’ nor to connect to suicidal individuals. It’s a marketing gimmick, I think of it in the same vein I think of scantily clad females that should be wearing full body armor. I like GTA, but I’m not fanboy enough to excuse the gratuitous amounts of unnecessary violence. So I think it is indeed an exploitation of grief, however I just don’t care and just want to be entertained.
Parents, ultimately, should be one to decide whether there tween should play God of War or anything else. And waiting 15 minutes to SAVE is unacceptable, those who suggest that others ‘deal with it’ should be considered enemies of gaming.
Re: Porn
Rule 34; If it it exist, there is porn of it. No exceptions.
Rule 35; If no porn of it can be found, it will be created.
well yea of course chips and games aren’t the same but still the people who think games are just for kids need to pull their head out of their ass. there’s no reason we should be punished for their ignorance. they wouldn’t have m rated games that you have to be 18 to buy if no one over 18 played games, that makes no sense. and if parents would spend more time actually talking to there kids instead of bashing the things they love and trying to blame everyone else for what happens we’d see alot less school shootings and things of that nature, i mean seriously when your child is depressed that means he/she needs help even if it is just someone to talk to.
the saving thing yea it sucks having to wait fifteen minutes to save but anyone who has ever played an rpg should be expecting that look at every final fantasy game, every star ocean, blue dragon, xenogears/xenosaga, all the most famous and greatest turn based rpgs are set up the same way you have to get to specific save points/or be on the world map to save. these games are made for people who are gonna put time into gaming there’s no reason to pick up an rpg if you don’t plan to play for at least 45 minutes at a time thats what action games/fighting games/shooters are for… hell you even have to get to a save point in gta. so saying someone is an enemy to gamers because they think you should deal with having to actually play the game is incorrect if your a gamer you know how it works and take the bad with the good.
i mean look at the person who wrote the original article he’s on here bashing the game when he’s only played a few hours of a 40+ hour game apparently he didn’t get to into the story they explain the guns later but it ruins the dramatic effect if you tell someone oh he wont get hurt then have him shoot himself in the head thats bad storytelling you want people to wonder why you want people to be concerned that the character might be in danger thats the same as reading the last chapter in a book first it ruins it there’s no surprise no suspense you know what happens so why bother
oh one other point I’d like to make is that just because the characters in a game/movie/tv show/ book series happens to be in high school doesn’t mean that it’s targeting that age group. i’m 22 and i just watched no county for old men and loved it and i know i’m no where near tommy lee jones’ age it’s just a story. the book ender’s game is about grade school aged kids but that book is way to mature for grade school students to read and understand. seriously can you honestly tell me you’ve never enjoyed a story about someone who is older/younger than you?
I hope that you write a final conclusion to this after you have finished the game because I am NEARLY done with it and most of what you say about this game i disagree on.
Peter,
I also notice that you don’t like the save system. Obviously you have not played many JRPG type games because I have a collection of them and it is VERY rare to find a good JRPG that doesn’t have a save system like this. Infact pretty much ALL of the JRPG’s that I own have a save system like this. The P3 save system is far more lenient then those other games do.
“I will continue to disparage anyone, anywhere, anytime, who suggests that it is even remotely acceptable for a game to make the player wait 15 to 30 minutes before they can save their game. That’s simply not a debatable point: save systems like that are pathological, and anyone who supports or encourages developers to create them is the enemy of all game players everywhere.”
They are not pathological, I’m not trying to sound mean but you probably just die a lot and can’t take it so you get mad at the game for not letting you save every 10 seconds. The Final Fantasy series have save points even farther apart then in P3 but you don’t attack those games? And the developers who create games with those kinds of save systems certainly are not enemies to all gamers everywhere. I enjoy the fact that I have enough skill to go 10 minutes without dieing in a game.
Oh and btw, I just searched “persona 3″ and this came up. Wasn’t looking for hentai.
Michaels,
I’ve played many JRPGs in my time. That most of them have broken save systems doesn’t make the systems any less broken.
I don’t know what sort of life you lead, but I don’t lead the sort of life where I can tell reality “Wait 10 minutes until I get to a save point.” It has nothing to do with skill. It has to do with the fact that a properly designed software product can be interrupted or suspended at a moment’s notice, and only a brain-damaged and broken product can not be.
Just because you enjoy an abusive relationship with your software doesn’t mean that the rest of us should have to suffer for it.
-peterb
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Peter,
Well then maybe you should not play games then? Speaking as a gamer if you can’t take 10 minutes to sit down and play a game, especially an RPG which are supposed to be deeper, more complex and time consuming then other genre’s then why play them at all? Why play any game? It’s just a bit confusing when you say things like this because you review games but then, according to your previous statements, it seems like you can’t find any time to play the game because reality is constantly calling for you attention. Also, if you play a game for just 10-15 minutes and have to suddenly leave then it’s not that big of a deal, especially in RPG’s where things take more time. If you went an hour without running into a save point then that would be a different story because if you die then all that progress would be lost. I hope you understand what I mean. And you never answered my Final Fantasy question.
Sorry, the above comment is Michaels but somehow I put your name instead. My fault
Michaels,
Why would I not play games just because some games are poorly designed? That makes no sense.
You didn’t actually ask me a question about the Final Fantasy games. Instead you asserted that I don’t “attack” them.
First, this shows some confusion: I’m not “attacking” Persona 3. I’m critiquing it. The idea that any negative criticism is an “attack” is, unfortunately, a common misconception among fans of gaming.
Second, we have criticized the Final Fantasy games. You’d have known that if you’d bothered to read anything we’ve written about them.
But thirdly, even if we loved the Final Fantasy games so much that we wanted to be making sweet love to them, always that would not somehow magically make your favorite game du jour immune from criticism. Criticism doesn’t work that way. Works of art are evaluated partially in the context of similar works, and partially on their own.
Hope that helps.
I understand more of where you are coming from now and I actually did try to find more of what you wrote about other games but I had some trouble because of the titles you gave some of your reviews but when I said “why not play any of them…” I actually didn’t mean to not play games I was just saying it to make a point like if someone said for example that they don’t like Italian food but they live in Italy so they have to eat it. Very bad example but you know what I mean. I read what you said when talking about bioshock and how you just can’t help the fact that you want to save a lot so I guess there would be no point in arguing with someone who has it programed into them because I do stuff like that also. But I would still like to maybe see a review of this game after you have beaten it.
btw, do you take game review requests or do you play games and review what you just happen to pick up? Even though we disagree on save systems (and Persona 3) I like how you review.
We’ve gotten the odd review copy of some small games but for the most part we just rant about games we buy.
Savepoint systems tend to punish people who have limited play time for whatever reason. I can tolerate them, but that does not make them less stupid.
Although Persona 3 requires you to shoot your own head, you shouldn’t be pushing the blame of suicide rates on this game.
> Although Persona 3 requires you to shoot your own head, you shouldn’t be
> pushing the blame of suicide rates on this game.
Can you read? Did you read the article you’re commenting on? Where, exactly, did I blame high suicide rates on Persona 3?
If you keep jerking your knee that hard, you’re going to pull a muscle.
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> Although Persona 3 requires you to shoot your own head
Best opening gambit ever.
Although Persona 3 requires you to shoot your own head…
…it is not concerning anything suicidal.
And to be frank, this is one of the games that don’t require you to grind endlessly for hours. It is an excellent form of strategy, as is with games like Valkyrie Profile 2 and others.
Interestingly, on savepoint systems, Valkyrie Profile 2 is more tedious than Persona 3, especially when you don’t have the time to keep on returning to the map just because you can’t finish the dungeon. And it’s still one of the best.
Savepoint systems aren’t the only thing, and Persona 3 is more thought-provoking than it is suicidal and/or depressing. Why not think about blowing your own brains out with a metaphorical gun in the shape of a thought-provoking game? Don’t you think that’s what Persona 3 really is about?
If you can’t see what’s below the skin, don’t say anything about it.
first of all, its not a real gun, nor a fake gun. its an EVOKER which is ocmpletely different from a gun. EVOKERS do NO damage to the person and are only meant to bring about the manifestation of their persona(the only way to fight against and defeat the evil consuming the world). there are also REAL guns used in this game that DO hurt and kill people.
if people would actually get past the opening cutscene of the game and not judge it for just this one aspect(which is not even about suicide), maybe more people could understand how truely great this story really is.
to justyn fry:
totally agree ^.^ throughout the game you really feel a strong connection for each of the characters and that makes the story much more emotional and entertaining
personally i like the spaced save points. whenever i get to a really good part in the story i make a seperate save slot so i can always go back to it later. since the save points are spaced it gives you the needed dialogue to get back into the story at that time if you had forgotten anything and allows you to relive the cutscene/battle just the same as the first time you played
this is why i believe critics are just plain annoying, you cant open up your mind and even consider other peoples ideas of the meanings behind games.
also, u cant compare games and resterants, u can see rotten food before you put it in your mouth u cant judge a game by playing a few hours, they have a tendancy to make little sence in the begining
This read was a waste of time. Peterb sounds like a Christian and is probably mad you can take control of Lucifer and destroy shit.
Christianity sucks and THAT is why you’re mad at this game.
I just sat here and read this whole string of comments (and I think I wasted more than 15 minutes right there), despite having never played persona 3. I just thought it looked interesting, and so googled ‘persona 3′. I still think the game looks interesting, even if it is immoral. (?) Since I have never played persona 3, I can’t say whether it is or not. However: these comments, they are funny. Seriously.
Also, I think people keep misunderstanding the OP, and then you get into these sort of gritty arguments about the guy’s right to say something or deny someone else’s opinion or whatever. I don’t think he was dissing on people who bought the game. I think he was dissing on the game’s usage of the image of a teenager shooting himself in the head, and the game creators, not y’all. So! It is okay.
Oh wait, this review is from a long time ago. Oh well.
ADDENDUM: that commenter above me? The “I hate society” person? I laugh at them.
Dear Peter,
I’m a game-player girl from Spain and i’ve played Persona 3 and now I’m playing Persona 3 FES
In my country, there is’nt that game, so I play it with the English version.
I want to say that I’m desagree:
Maybe the Persona’s summon version is a bit “Shoking”, but if you see the other Persona’s game (Persona 2, now Persona 4…) They don’t use that summon version.
And Atlus don’t want to show or inculcate suicidal thoughts, because the main characters fight against a being called “Nyx”, who represents any thought of desire of death, suicidal thoughts.
So, Atlus does not want that you stick a shot, but you avoid this option and look the one that is more complicated but the the most wise: To continue the way of the life towards ahead.
At the opening song says
“I’ll break the chain
And run till I see the sunlight again
I’ll lift my face and run to the sunlight”
I think that it means that he want to live, not die.
And finally, that manga hentai of Persona 3 is a fan made creation.
It is not a made cómic in order that the game became more popular, but because the fans of the history or prominent figures (that I declare myself one of them) mount the histories for pure amusement.
I can understand that you cannot stand the way of invoking of the game, but in P4 they do it with cards, you do not have to think it so to chest
Good, I just to say sorry because my english is poorly, and I want to say sorry if I have make any mistake.
I wish that you have understand my explanation n_nU
Yours is one of the most matured and conscious comments on persona ever, thank you for bringing Jungian and psychological perspectives and interpretations to video game fans.
I have played 40 hours of persona, I can make Lv 20 personas.
–Only people without responsibility – kids – can tolerate such broken save systems.– what if the fact of the struggle to find a save point represents the search for some light at the end of the Tartarus/night/dream/nightmare? What if it is a part of the story as boredom might be a character in a bored novel? You can not establish start/end-save/continue point in real live any time you want, a divorce process can take months, gestation, studying a career, the concept of: it takes time to be done, reinforces the complexity of things, and make the accomplishment valuable, you can run your way through these things, you can fight your self through these things, in the end it is not the end, it is the path (something way deeply inside the Japanese and oriental philosophy oriented societies). The real motive for doing anything, it is the same as going through Tartarus finding a way back to 1f save point.
–but most would say that trying to simply overpower it by whacking it over the head will more likely lead to constant unhappiness, rather than self-discovery— you are dead right, but the process of self-discovery can have self destructive stages, like dark ones, like sad ones, so each time they summon a persona (or any one of us recurs to something not well defined inside of us as a test of trial and error to see if that something might work for us) they do not deny them self, they try inside them to find a possible solution to the task at hand, in the end, there is no manifestation of the persona with out the willing and conscious, even strategic considerations of the persona user him her self, so the act of blowing your mind, romanticized to boredom, it is no different of any other self discovery or adapting action of the self confronting a problem.
The art is bound to shock the eye, but ask for the soul and the mind to see.
Thanks for your effort on video games; every post is one step closer to art level acceptance.
In real life there are shadows everywhere and you have to shoot yourself in the head to open your eyes, it’s a tough decision which requires wits from you to do so, not some desperate hopeseeking act.
I actually interpret this game as very bright and life-pulsating. It’s cheerful character is reinforced by storyline and not only, the music is very optimistic too. I appreciate your efforts to decipher game’s phsychological nature but I think you miss the point completely.
OK, after looking at some of this, on one hand I can see how the game could be misinterpreted. Did you know that the weapon is entirely fake? They don’t actually shoot a live weapon into their skulls like that–it’s just a tool to incite intense emotional stress. This emotional stress causes their Persona to come forth and do their bidding, if but for a short time. While I can see the link to suicide in this, by no means are they trying to make it seem like the right choice. If you had gotten deeper into the story, a number of the people don’t even WANT the power of the Persona, but they were chosen and there’s nothing they can do about it. As someone above mentioned, also: there are real guns in the game, and not once is one of them used in an act of suicide–at least as far as I’ve played (62 hours into the game or so, Approximate Tartarus Floor 141).
On the topic of hentai, most of it is Japanese in origin, and as many people above me have said, it’s all fan-made. Atlus didn’t have anything to do with that, and I don’t think their creators would really want for such material to promote the game. And really, how are you going to know what to look for if you’re not already at least mildly interested in the game?
And I guess lastly, somewhat returning to my first point: the social link system in the game also should help show that this game really isn’t as dark and angsty as it seems. Yes, a lot of problems are brought to light by the characters in social link events, but real life has problems just like them. “My uncle wants me to go back home and leave Japan” or even “I have this thing for older women, and I’m trying to formulate a plan to make it work.” Yeah, the second one is a little bizarre, but high school students sometimes do get crushes on their teachers… Your goal in them is to cheer them up and bolster their confidence (in the first case) or show your support (in the second case). Heck, you can even get into romantic relationships–and if you neglect any social link for too long, it will become Reversed or Broken. This, at least in my opinion, has a little bit of hidden meaning, or a moral: nurture your relationships with friends–you need them just as much as they need you. The game also seems to have another positive message: Make every day you’ve got count. In the game, whether it be studying, training, nurturing relationships with friends and those you’re attracted to, you only have so much time to do the things you want and need to do, so do as much as humanly possible with the time you’ve got.
All right, I guess that wasn’t “lastly”…I still feel like I have something to say. Sorry for all the babbling, but I saw this and felt the urge to respond. While I can see how you wouldn’t like the save system, there are only a few points in the game where the ability to return to the nearest save point isn’t a minute or two away–firstly, during the normal part of the day (school, after school) and during important sequences, such as full moons or other incidents that might come up. On nearly every floor of Tartarus there is a panel you can access to warp back to the first floor, which is where you save. There have only been a few instances where I couldn’t get back to the first floor when I’ve needed to, and those were usually taken care of within the minute. Sneak by or fight the shadows between you and the next floor, then check there for the warp panel. Heck, if you’re in even more of a hurry to get to the 1st floor save point, have your party split up, with the “Explore Area” tactic–the moment someone finds the stairs or the warp, they’ll tell you so you can get out of there. There’s inherent danger in this, but on the whole it’s worked for me.
And to further clarify where I’m coming from, I’m 24, and taking time to learn a programming language so I can enhance my chances of employment. While I do tend to have a lot of time on my hands (and have even had to let the game sit at the menu screen because something urgent came up), I’ve not had too much trouble with the save system.
And now, I’m finally done with this last comment, relating to the save issue:
I guess, looking at it, I have seen better save systems. In…I think it was the Evolution series for the Dreamcast, at the end of each floor you had the option to suspend play in a Suspend File, which upon reload would delete itself. At least this method lets you stop at perfectly reasonable points, but still keeps the challenge of the game because you have to use the game’s normal save system to save a more permanent file in case you fail and game-over.
All right, I’ve done enough jumping from topic to topic–my brain is moving faster than I can keep up. I guess I’ll leave it at that–I hope I’ve been able to shed a little more light on this (what I view to be a) masterpiece of a game.
Okay, I’ve played through more of the game, and I do have a change to make. I can see one major instance where you’d be right about the save system–at the end of the 12th Full Moon Operation. That operation is supposed to be monumental in nature–everyone in the dorm thinks that it’s the end of their struggle…only to find out that it isn’t. This sequence (yes, I’ve timed it) drags on for approximately 30 minutes, while some friends of mine were waiting for me so we could do something. I’m not afraid to admit, at least in this instance, that I was slightly wrong. (I say “slightly wrong” because so far this is the only instance where a save point has been THAT far away.)
Just thought I’d clarify on my previous comment. I’m not about to leave a statement that makes my post look discreditable sit there to be picked at.
Actually, I was nearly proven wrong a second time–there is an act of suicide which almost involved a gun, but it was resolved…at least in the gun regard. The characters involved still did manage to commit suicide, but it was in more of a “stereotypical JRPG” fashion than anything else. I won’t give details–anyone who wants to find out more about what I’m talking about needs to play through the game on their own–my save comment already almost gives stuff away.
Anyway, take care.
I like pie.
Note: This comment has been edited by the site owners to completely change its meaning. -The Management.
Eh. I just don’t think he fully played the game at the time of the review, or had the capacity to even understand the concepts of the plot. And the hentai thing is completely random. There’s hentai about EVERYTHING. Rule 34. It’s not just japanese stuff. It’s everywhere. Anyone can draw it. Although the dialogue and other tedious concepts were irritating, and the fact that you are ONLY IN CONTROL OF ONE CHARACTER are bad points for this game, it’s still a solid and fun RPG— The awards and ratings have proved it. And bashing something only on the basis of them shooting themselves in the head with FAKE guns isn’t really logical.
There’s no gore when they do it. They don’t die when they do it. It’s not even suicidal. Sure, some lunatic might get the impression that by shooting themselves in the head with a ammo-less fake gun that can’t even kill (It’s stated that the Evoker is NOT a weapon). Now, I haven’t completely beaten the game, (because I got it late— My friend reccomended it.) and the fact that I don’t devote all of my time to playing it, I don’t fully know if suicide does happen.
But, I honestly don’t think the audience of the this game would go and kill themselves over it. By now, someone would have, and we would’ve heard about it on the internets.
It is really tedious, however, and I understand what you say about saving. Sometimes, you spend so much time going through dialogue, you can’t save when you really need too. Persona 4 is coming out— They use glasses for something this time, and it’s a murder-mystery style… So, got any objections to that? I bet in your review, Martha Stewart is going to be used. I predict it.
But, yeah. If you’ve played a Persona game, it’s heavily occult, and it has a great style that appeals to people. If Persona 2 was more widely accessible, (I have it downloaded…)it’d be controversial too. It seems like it would be more of your type, however, seeing as you can save anywhere.
Persona 3 was a great game, but it had tons of room for improvement. Cut out the meaningless dialouge, and add in more story. I’m still skipping through the talking to progress in the story. Tartarus is annoying, as well. I can’t stand random dungeons.
I think you’ve done a good job defending yourself, and your views, and I think the opposition has been great, too. You don’t really apprieciate a game until someone talks smack about it.
-Chiu
First of all, I disagree with you saying that suicide is a theme. Only TWO people even committed suicide; and they were criminals! The evokers used by the protagonists aren’t even loaded; it’s the thought of a putting a gun to the head along with the sound that are meant to create a traumatizing enough experience to hence, evoke, the persona. And saying that the opening theme romanticizes suicide is practically a insult to the entire development team for that video. It says in bright red MEMENTO MORI, and even if you didn’t know what that means (which is pretty ignorant) it translates it into several languages, including English! As for the save points; the only time it even takes long are plot dialogue areas that might have a boss somewhere in the middle, and if you can’t beat the boss it’s your fault for being a crap level. Plus, judging by the fact you get upset over 15 min. is pretty shallow. How many people come home from school or work and play a RPG, no ANY game for FIVE minutes, and then turn off the console for the rest of the day? You might as well not even play the game! I respect your right to express yourself and your views however you want on the internet, but if you’re not even going to finish the game before writing a review, regardless of it being positive or negative, let the people at IGN and Gamespot do their job.
Gosh, I don’t know how I could have thought that suicide was a theme of the game when multiple people in the game committed suicide and the entire combat mechanic involves watching people put magic gun-shaped tokens up to their head and pulling the triggers. Thinking that that imagery was evocative or suggestive of suicide? That’s crazy talk!
“How many people come home from school or work and play a RPG, no ANY game for FIVE minutes, and then turn off the console for the rest of the day? ”
Today’s exam contains a math word puzzle.
Quentin comes home from a hard day at the steel mill. Wanting to enjoy a videogame, Quentin turns on his new favorite RPG, Wankona 3: Shin Megami Lain, which involves defending the honor of your favorite game on the Internet. Shin Megami Lain only lets you save when you reach or return to certain points, which happen about every 15 minutes. Quentin plays Shin Megami Lain for 62 minutes. During the 67th minute Quentin starts to get a little bored of the game, and wants to stop. But since he has just found a new magic item (the Quiver of Infinite Wanky Replies), he doesn’t want to just turn off his console and lose the last 7 minutes of gameplay. How many more minutes must Quentin continue playing Shin Megami Lain for before he can finally turn off the console?
Note that if anything, I’ve probably understated the complete awfulness of Persona 3′s save system. If I recall correctly, when you’re in the tower, you can only save by going back to the ground floor, but you can only teleport back to some of the tower floors, every 5 floors or so. So if we assume that it takes about 10 minutes to clear a floor (probably that estimate is a bit low, based on how long combat takes), then the player is actually actively punished for saving the game, since to get back to (roughly) where they were, they’ll likely have to fight through several lower floors.
Sure hope there are never any power outages where you live.
“And saying that the opening theme romanticizes suicide is practically a insult to the entire development team for that video.”
I’m sorry that my writing was so poor that you thought it was only practically an insult. Let me try again: the people who designed that video were bad people, and I think they should feel ashamed.
I don’t really want to get too involved in this but felt I should point out that Fuuka gets the ability to instantly warp you back to the entrance in Tartarus.
Like the guy above me I don’t want to get heavily involved either, but I do have a request. I would prefer that something like this be divided into two articles or at least have a clear distinction between points. At some points you’re definitely reviewing game mechanics (e.g. save points), but in the middle you start to group the game review with your own opinion of the game’s ethics. I don’t have a problem with you not liking the game’s ideology, but would prefer that the review and critique remain separate less the review seem bias.
You are right. It would be unseemly to let informed opinion enter into the game review process. Game reviews are much better if they are just checklists with numbers between 1 and 5 after each item. After all, you can’t let subjective opinion leak into critical writing. No one has ever done that before.
Committing suicide is so gay.
I think the author of 97 is more biased than he lets know.